ecgt Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 After sleeping on it, I am somewhat bothered by the listing of Better Comics # 1 for $100,000. I suspect that what I say in this post will ruffle some feathers, but please take the time to read this and reflect on why I am troubled. I hope that this is a publicity stunt. With this being the 75th anniversary of WECA books and the price guide coming out later this year, it makes sense to try to drum up interest in Canadian Whites. More people (not just comic enthusiasts) should be aware of these comics because they are a part of the fabric of Canadian pop culture history. A publicity stunt is something that I can get behind. I am worried that there is more to this and that it is an unintentional "pump and dump" that has led to price manipulation. This comic certainly belongs to Walter DurajLija, who first wrote about Better Comics # 1 as part of his popular "Undervalued Spotlight" column on Comic Book Daily in 2011. He did not own the book at the time: https://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/undervalued/undervalued-spotlight-103/ 18 months later, he and Stephen Lipson were able to procure a large run of Better Comics, including two copies of # 1. Walter paid more for the privilege to own the higher graded copy. You can read about it here: http://www.bigbcomics.com/waltor/2013/07/17/canadian-whites-collection-found/ Last year, Ivan wrote about the Canadian Comic Corner and the CGC 7.0 Better Comics # 1 is prominently displayed in the corner at Big B Comics: http://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/whites-tsunami-weca-splashes/canadian-comics-corner/#lightbox-gallery-fvBc/1/ Let me qualify that I have nothing but respect for Stephen and Ivan, whose enthusiasm for Whites is infectious. I have never spoken with Walter, but his reputation precedes him as an Overstreet Advisor, Shuster winner, retailer and stand-up guy. None of this can be disputed. What troubles me is that Walter is one of the main people working with Ivan to develop the WECA price guide (along with Jim Finlay, who I do not know, and Tony Andrews, who is an amazing human being). I have been discussing the guide with collectors and dealers in Atlantic Canada who are terrified to sell their Canadian Whites right now because of their fear that they may undersell books and regret it later and there is a small buzz around the guide because of the desire to have access to a credible reference book with accurate price valuing. I have even contributed a list of all of the books in my collection and what I paid for them to one of the members of the group because I really want to this guide to happen. But, if Better Comics # 1 shows up in the guide valued at $100,000 at 7.0 with no sales data then credibility goes to the wayside. Instead of having a credible guide, readers will be looking at a guide that is based on price manipulation by people who own some of these books and stand to benefit from creating hype. Maybe the book is worth $100,000, but without solid sales data, it would be very dangerous to suggest this in the guide. As such, I hope that this is nothing more than a publicity stunt that will not have an affect on the prices in the guide's 1st edition. Any thoughts or opinions? BEAUMONTS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarvaj Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Thanks for your thoughtful and clarifying reply, Brian. I really do appreciate your love of Freelance. He's one of the best written characters (done by Toronto Telegram editor Ted McCall and wonderfully rendered by Ed Furness) from the WECA period and demands a reprint series at some point--mind you it would have to be a three volume reprint because of the number of stores available. It's a reprint series I've been pushing for for some time. I hope somebody like Chapterhouse might do it. I don't mean to run down CGC decimal grading system because it provides a service that has made this hobby grow (and this is a CGC forum, isn't it?). But sometimes it can go over the line for those of us who started collecting in the sixties. I think your move to FECA books is one that many people are making and I see them being snapped up regularly on eBay. There are many lovely and distinctive books from that period and they are all Canadian. A checklist price guide of all of them that we know about would be our next project after we finish the WECA Price Guide which, itself, we hope will be ready for Fan Expo in Toronto this year. As for Walt's listing of the Better 1, we all have to remember that this an asking price and not a realized price point. I wonder what the person who sold the book to Walt will think if and when he sees the listing? Sorry for the long text posts. I'll try to send a pic or two next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgt Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Here is the complete set of Guardians of the North cards that John Bell produced in the 1990s for the National Archives of Canada. I was lucky that a friend was able to hook me up with this set recently after he bought the last few sets that John Bell still had. I would never have known about this set if it wasn't for Ivan posting about it earlier this year (thanks Ivan!): http://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/whites-tsunami-weca-splashes/75-years-canadian-comic-book/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmyst Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEyeSees Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 the price guide coming out later this year The real question is, will the whites price guide be listed in US dollars or CANADIAN dollars??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgt Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I am honestly having a lot of fun purchasing FECA books, Ivan. There are certainly quite a few that are virtually identical to the American prints, but I have picked up a handful that have different color schemes and I have been delighted when I find comics that have completely different interiors than what the cover suggests. For example, I have a Canadian copy of All-True Crime # 28 that actually reprints Marvel Mystery Comics # 87. Part of the fun is the detective work involved when the cover and interior do not match the American prints. I'd love to be involved in the FECA project when it comes to fruition, even if its in a peripheral capacity. Edited June 2, 2016 by ecgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanook Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Feca books are awesome to collect and yes lots of hidden gems in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I am a WECA guy Although I do have some of the really cool FECA books such as Nitro Comics, Unusual Comics, Super Duper 3, and some of the zany Fox Hybrids such as Galliant Comics with the Phantom Lady Edited June 2, 2016 by eccomic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecgt Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I am the a WECA guy Fixed that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 I am the a WECA guy Fixed that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. the consignments are lovely. How many books came we expect in this first auction roughly? I see there are about 15 so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmyst Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. the consignments are lovely. How many books came we expect in this first auction roughly? I see there are about 15 so far Hey man, Still figuring it all out, actually, with more coming back from CGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccomic Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. the consignments are lovely. How many books came we expect in this first auction roughly? I see there are about 15 so far Hey man, Still figuring it all out, actually, with more coming back from CGC. Of course virtually none of us, myself included, will be able to acquire any of them, as they will realize insane prices at auction end. This is fueled by the hype over Canadian Whites. Very frustrating indeed. I do not intend on paying obscene amounts of money for books that I would be completing with many others at auction end, like vultures on carrion. Edited June 2, 2016 by eccomic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 "Vultures on carrion" ... great line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. the consignments are lovely. How many books came we expect in this first auction roughly? I see there are about 15 so far Hey man, Still figuring it all out, actually, with more coming back from CGC. I notice they are all Bells so far . What % of the collection would you say are Bells roughly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarvaj Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Brian, I know Walter very well and so do Jim, Tony, and Stephen. The reasons for the listing of Better 1 at that price point is not at all a malicious one or an attempt to manipulate the price. The four of us working on the WECA Price Guide are doing so in a completely sober atmosphere and greatly value our integrity and don't want to compromise it in any way in the Price Guide. I'm sure that Walt will write everything up on Comic Book Daily in a week or so. We planned the guide to be ready for Fan Expo on Labour Day weekend but with the CLINK auction coming up at the end of August we'll probably push it back a little to include those results because there appears to be a great selection of WECA books that will go up on the auction block with many in solid grades not like the first couple of CLINK auctions. If anybody is concerned about underselling their WECA books, I would recommend getting them slabbed and up on CLINK to see what people will pay for them. A price guide is just that--a guide and not a written-in-stone statement that sellers have to get the stated price or that buyers have to pay the stated price. I think it gives sellers and buyers a point to begin negotiating a deal and so many other factors come into play as well. In fact, the best part of the WECA Price Guide for me is not the money numbers sitting in those columns but the fact that it will be the best checklist (with 1st apps., significant covers, important artists credits, etc. notations) that has been done so far. It's been too long to be without something like this to help people understand and acquire these books in a confident way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Glad to hear that Ivan. I have zero interest in it as a price guide as I prefer to just interpret market data myself, but the checklist aspect sounds interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmyst Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. the consignments are lovely. How many books came we expect in this first auction roughly? I see there are about 15 so far Hey man, Still figuring it all out, actually, with more coming back from CGC. I notice they are all Bells so far . What % of the collection would you say are Bells roughly? Half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmyst Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi guys, Starting with ComicLink's Summer Featured Auction, you will see several hundred CGC graded Canadian Whites listed at auction over the next few months. There is a range of grades (from Incomplete to 9.0) but if you check out the auction preview: http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/preview.asp?code=2016aug you will see we have already listed some that are very notable for their high grades. Over the next several months, we'll be listing examples from a broader range of titles. A couple years ago, we auctioned what was then the largest offering of CGC graded Canadian comics that had been brought to auction. As a Golden Age collector who had seen very little in the way of Canadian Whites, I immediately fell in love with them (but no, I do not actively collect them at this time.) Most of the prices we realized at auction were very impressive, with many that were, well, shocking. With respect to the discussion above relating to a possible price guide and the dearth of actual sales data, I think the sale of these books will certainly add some perspective. the consignments are lovely. How many books came we expect in this first auction roughly? I see there are about 15 so far Hey man, Still figuring it all out, actually, with more coming back from CGC. Of course virtually none of us, myself included, will be able to acquire any of them, as they will realize insane prices at auction end. This is fueled by the hype over Canadian Whites. Very frustrating indeed. I do not intend on paying obscene amounts of money for books that I would be completing with many others at auction end, like vultures on carrion. You sandbagger. Cut it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarvaj Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 It's in US $ and has to be to relate to the overall market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
