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Amazon's THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RINGS OF POWER (2022)
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Started by Bosco685,

630 posts in this topic

sfcityduck

sfcityduck

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/15/2022 at 1:15 PM, drotto said:

I know I have angered a few with my opinion so far on this show, and I agree at times I may have gone a bit far.  I do give the show credit for generally being well shot, and most of the costuming and sets look good.  I do think the armor is a bit uninspired and some of the CGI has been wonky, but in general it has looked good.  I also in general have no issues with the cast, for the most part they are doing well with what they were given  I admit, there is enough here to be salvaged (I know shock I would say that), but the writing needs to improve.  The dialog is clunky, they have failed to establish the logic of this world, and yes it does not feel Tolkien.  I might even like the series if it was not being sold as Tolkien. But seeing the totality of where season 1 has gone, the most damaging decision for this show was going with the mystery box of who is Sauron.  I think it constrained the writers, prevented them from including a story threads that would have been interesting, and took away a narrative backbone that would help tie the various storylines together. So getting themselves away from the mystery box could solve many of my issues going forward. Also, it is an approach that in and of itself is not very Tolkien.

 

Let me explain in spoilers for those that either do not wish to read, are sick of me, or still have not watched.

  Reveal hidden contents

So finding out the Halbrand was Sauron was not really a surprise.  It seemed fairly obvious, many people guess it, so the ultimate reveal falls flat. So by making the entire season about keeping this secrete affects how the entire season plays out, and made it impossible to tell many potentially interesting stories. I think seeing Sauron's manipulations would have been far more interesting, then maintaining the mystery. Here is my reasoning...

1. It makes Galadriel look bad. I competent leader is supposed to know her enemy especially if they have been pursuing them for centuries. He basically tells her who she is when they first met, and she flat out misses it, and then she continues to miss it until she is flat out told. If she was this amazing, fanatic leader she should have seen this. Instead it makes her look either incompetent, arrogant, or stupid. Although, it still does not make sense why when she found out he could not be trusted, why did she not tell the people forging the rings?

2. It takes Sauron from being a long planning manipulating villain to a purely opportunistic one. So he see Mount Doom created and says this may be useful to me.  He sees the elves creating the rings, and says this may be helpful to me.  He did not cause any of this to happen however, or we we given no indication he has coordinated this.

3. It makes it feel like characters are being pulled along by events rather then actively affecting the events.

4. It lets the writers use the box as a carrot to pull viewers along, rather then feel they need to give us compelling pieces in between.

5. It makes Galadriel look like she caused all of this.  If Halbrand was in the least bit sincere about wanting a simple life in Numenor, then she forced him back onto the road of evil. A gave him the keys by showing him Mount Doom and giving access to corrupt the Elvin rings.

So, if they had revealed Sauron to the audience, not the characters how would this have changed the story and possibly made it better.

1. They could have made Sauron a more menacing and conniving villain from the start.  This would have created much more consistent tension in the season.  Shown a much more looming threat.

2. He would then be a manipulating presence as opposed to a passive one. Pushing the Dwarves to mine the mithril.  Pushing the Elves to make the rings.  Using Adar to create Mount Doom. having spies planted with the Dwarves, Elves, and with men. Thus he becomes an active player, pushing his goal.  In LOTR he is shown as a master long term planner and manipulator.  The way he corrupted and manipulated Wormtounge and Saruman.  They way he controlled and molded events using this approach. Knowing his identity earlier would have shown that far better.

3. The witches would also have been controlled by him and therefor actively hunting to destroy a threat to Sauron.  So he knows there are powerful players he needs to guard against. Not just hoping he is Sauron and then being easily dismissed

4. Having Galadriel be manipulated just like everyone else, makes her a more sympathetic character. Also setting up a character change arc for her triggered by realizing how she was manipulated. That vengeance blinded her. I suspect this is where they are going, but it may have deflected much of the criticism against her character this season.

5. like I said about it give a narrative thread to better tie these stories together.

 

These are just some of my though.  I know many will disagree, but I felt that in trying to bring this back to a more level headed discussion, with ideas as opposed to pure oppositionm this can be a better discussion.  I still really do hope they find a way to fix many of my quibbles in season 2. 

 

You put in a lot of effort to that post, I will give you that.  But my takeaway is that you have to try really hard to nitpick enough to dislike this show.  For me, It takes little effort to like this show - just the realization that Tolkien wanted those who came after him to run with his characters.  This show is providing backstory for plot holes in LOTR that have never been addressed.
 

Spoiler

I can certainly point for point your commentary, but my sum up would be I think your key critiques of the two arch enemies who are the show’s central focus are not supported by the events of the show itself or by Tolkien. Tolkien was very clear that Sauron was a plotter, a master of verbal, and, before the Fall of Numenor, physical deception.  No elf saw through his deceptions until it was too late and only Gil Galad refused to be part of the ring project.  The story told in Rings to my eyes reveals Sauron as a subtle mover of events, a master of deception and a constant liar. I do not think any criticism that x character should have been able to spot Sauron would have been consistent with the logic of Tolkien or the show.  
 

If you assume that Sauron is not behind the events we have seen in one way or another than I think you have missed the hints in the show. The notion that Adar is Sauron’s enemy is laughable.  He clearly was acting at Sauron’s behest at all times. Mt. Doom was part of Sauron’s master plan, not a happy coincidence. If you assume the truth of statements in the midst of a vast verbal deception and mental attack to support your analysis, then I think you have been snared by Sauron’s lies.

The whole scene with Sauron and Adar was theatre aimed at Galadriel. Part of his attempt to seduce her to his side. Otherwise it is irreconcilable with preceding events.  If Adar was not Sauron’s lackey but really his enemy, why would he have stopped Galadriel from killing Adar?

I think you lost the thread in your analysis.

 


 

Other of your critiques are well within the realm of opinion on which we can all reasonably disagree.

 

Edited by sfcityduck
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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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On 10/17/2022 at 6:33 AM, media_junkie said:

Try a few years.  Season 2 isn't expected to drop until sometime in 2024.

That is not an actual fact. Filming has started. There has been no official announcement of release date.  Just an off the cuff, incomplete and ambiguous quote. Still, is not unusual to see more than one year gaps in season release dates (Stranger Things, GoT, etc.had at least 15 month gaps). Even if Season 2 does not come out until 2024 that might not be outside the norm since this was a Fall release series. 

Edited by sfcityduck
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ianh

ianh

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The final episode did very little to move the bar for me and actually made it worse. Not a fan of the story, dialog, music or any of it really. They changed the characters and story to much for me to fit their agenda. Gil-Galahad is a jerk, Elrond clueless and Celebrimbor is naive and Celeborn is I guess dead all to make Galadriel the hero of the story. 

I fall into the side of Tolkien did not want his characters changed or his story as he thought it was a perversion and only hoped his stories would inspire others to create their own stories not re-write his which is exactly what they did. Truth is we will never know as people use quotes of his to support whichever side of the argument they fall on but since he is dead we never can truly know. What we do know is he sold the rights in 1969 so those that have the rights can do what they wish. 

I'm not happy with the series but at least it is Middle Earth so better then nothing I guess. I don't fall into the camp of while if I don't like it they never should have made it. Hopefully it gets better for me but the fact they keep throwing Third Age stuff into the Second Age because they think people love the Balrog and The Stranger (who we all know who that is) is pretty silly to me. And the 3 Elven Ring Pops was quite the laugh as well smh. Really?

And what was up with that Fiona Apple song during the credits? God awful it was....

 

Edited by ianh
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drotto

drotto

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On 10/17/2022 at 10:28 AM, sfcityduck said:

That is not an actual fact. Filming has started. There has been no official announcement of release date.  Just an off the cuff, incomplete and ambiguous quote. Still, is not unusual to see more than one year gaps in season release dates (Stranger Things, GoT, etc.had at least 15 month gaps). Even if Season 2 does not come out until 2024 that might not be outside the norm since this was a Fall release series. 

Amazon has already said that season 2 may take a few years.

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