Justice League - restarting the thread 1 1

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

Sigh...

Good morning! 

1) You quoted Mendelson at Forbes only to then try to discredit him by pointing to a then three-week old Variety piece to try to validate you're uber-minority view. Which is particularly amusing because every subsequent Variety piece cites the higher budget number.

2) You are assuming (as in, guessing) that the single WSJ article is the ultimate source for all the subsequent quotes and coverage citing ~$300 million. We don't actually know that to be true. I, for one, trust the reporters at Forbes, Variety and Deadline to have their own reliable sources.

3) You've essentially staked your claim that the _only_ figure you'll accept is one posted by Box Office Mojo, despite far more reputable financial trades and financially-minded Hollywood trades already having weighed in.

Add to this your own admission that Box Office Mojo first mis-reported Guardians of the Galaxy's budget of $170 million, later revising it to $200 million. (Which, by the way, is considered the appropriate budget because the very Forbes article you cite giving it the $230 million budget notes the final budget for that film was $232.3 million minus $36.4 million in UK tax rebates. Hence, ~$200 million)

4) I wasn't joking about your going in to correct Wikipedia. If you're going to continue to publish false information here -- and holding this particular film's budget to a vastly different standard than any other in either of your DC or Marvel charts -- you should absolutely correct the record for the public at large.

+1

What's particularly obscene about what he's doing here (and remembering how he goes on and on about needing to report the alleged "real budget" of GOTG 1) is that in looking back at the Homecoming thread he gleefully and repeatedly made the demonstrably FALSE claim that the "marketing budget" of that film was "$140MM" in a patently feeble attempt to mitigate that film's over performance in relation to Wonder Woman.  It got to the point where I seriously thought he was about to add that number to the production budget just so it could look like the film under performed instead of being the biggest hero movie of the year.

Now here, again in spite of all evidence , is knowingly and repeatedly UNDER reporting the consensus production budget of JL.  "But I don't know the real budget !" he exclaims.  But continues to use "$275MM" because Mendelson said it once.  But let's just ignore what Mendelson, along with what every other media outlet says now.  And of course we won't even touch what ever JL's "marketing budget" was.  

Truth and consistency in analytics, or don't bother with any charts at all.   

-J.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[paperheart]

5 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

+1

What's particularly obscene about what he's doing here (and remembering how he goes on and on about needing to report the alleged "real budget" of GOTG 1) is that in looking back at the Homecoming thread he gleefully and repeatedly made the demonstrably FALSE claim that the "marketing budget" of that film was "$140MM" in a patently feeble attempt to mitigate that film's over performance in relation to Wonder Woman.  It got to the point where I seriously thought he was about to add that number to the production budget just so it could look like the film under performed instead of being the biggest hero movie of the year.

Now here, again in spite of all evidence , is knowingly and repeatedly UNDER reporting the consensus production budget of JL.  "But I don't know the real budget !" he exclaims.  But continues to use "$275MM" because Mendelson said it once.  But let's just ignore what Mendelson, along with what every other media outlet says now.  And of course we won't even touch what ever JL's "marketing budget" was.  

Truth in analytics, or don't bother with any charts at all.   

-J.

your forgetting adding in the marketing $'s in the ASM2 thread or the desperation of bringing up the product placement money in the MOS thread.  objectivity left the room long ago.

[jsilverjanet]

7 minutes ago, paperheart said:

your forgetting adding in the marketing $'s in the ASM2 thread or the desperation of bringing up the product placement money in the MOS thread.  objectivity left the room long ago.

keep in mind who you are quoting. This is a poster who's basis for the value of some books are sales that are unpublished but he's aware of them but can't reveal details and basis scarcity on the census of the GPA. It's interesting when he takes up certain causes outside his thread. Usually if you follow the paper trail you'll know why

[Jaydogrules]

7 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

keep in mind who you are quoting. This is a poster who's basis for the value of some books are sales that are unpublished but he's aware of them but can't reveal details and basis scarcity on the census of the GPA. It's interesting when he takes up certain causes outside his thread. Usually if you follow the paper trail you'll know why

False (and irrelevant).  My basis for values is ALWAYS published/public sales data. 

Check yourself. 

-J.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bosco685]

13 minutes ago, paperheart said:

your forgetting adding in the marketing $'s in the ASM2 thread or the desperation of bringing up the product placement money in the MOS thread.  objectivity left the room long ago.

Uhh - who inserted the marketing budget into ASM2? You were the person that like now attacked me over adjusting the budget down from the rumored $325M production budget when it came out later the real number was $255M. When I corrected my number to reflect what came out later, you called me an 'ASM2 apologist'. Yet I had disliked the movie. Unfortunately, you then went back and changed your post.

But I forget. You are allowed to post what you want.

[Bosco685]

20 minutes ago, paperheart said:

your forgetting adding in the marketing $'s in the ASM2 thread or the desperation of bringing up the product placement money in the MOS thread.  objectivity left the room long ago.

Yup, found it.

DC and Marvel movie results: 1978 to present

Rather than using the rumored production budget of $325M, which I initially did because that was the assumed consensus, I found out later the number was more $255M for ASM2 and adjusted my charts. So then when someone was making a big deal about all the money Sony threw away due to '$325M' they spent on the movie, I posted the source that had found out the product budget was less. And I NEVER plugged in the marketing budget into anything. I noted it was called out in that same source.

Nice job trying to post a lie there, paperheart. Escalate that to your sales mod buddies so I get another point.

[jsilverjanet]

10 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Check yourself. 

 

[jsilverjanet]

here you go guys

 

[Bosco685]

So the same three people attacking someone over a production budget number will lock another thread. Add to this now posting lies without adding their little contributions to stir the pot further.

What a sweet little place we call 'Home'.

[Bosco685]

I'd hate for paperheart to not get all the details straight. Especially when he bumped a given post in a thread without all the details.

23 minutes ago, paperheart said:

too soon to resurrect this objective gem?

You mean when someone was forcing the topic ALL EXPENSES - so I went with it and inserted ALL EXPENSES for their conversation.

Yet if you go back and check any of my other charts about ASM2, it reflects first an adjustment what the rumored budget was ($300M-$325M so I took the lower since nothing was confirmed). Then adjusted to $255M when I saw that later article.

DC and Marvel movie results: 1978 to present

On 8/7/2015 at 5:02 PM, Bosco685 said:

Finally!

 

Should Sony Panic About The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Box Office Sales?

 

 

 

That means ASM2 did make money. It was just so small a profit it was an embarrassment to Sony compared to the previous Spider-Man movies.

 

 

But nice way to twist the facts.

[Bosco685]

Let's chat about what is really going on here.

On 11/15/2017 at 5:00 PM, paperheart said:

Let's continue to deflect from the fact that after 36 reviews on Metacritic this dud is rated lower than MOS. Let's continue to trumpet pathetic fanboy tweeters, ignore the review embargo warning sign and blame the critics rather than the hacks who made the movie.  Blow up the DCEU and focus on making good movies; WW worked because it wasn't tied into this universe that Snyder set on the wrong track from day one.  A stand alone Aquaman movie could work, a WW stand alone movie set during the Cold War could work, a Reeves Batman stand alone movie that features the world's greatest detective could work.  The universe game is over; Marvel won because they took the time to build the thing and didn't rush headlong into the abyss. 

On 11/16/2017 at 1:16 AM, paperheart said:

as long as the WB  gag order RT reveal allowed a few more tickets to be sold it was well worth the temporary loss of credibility and the negative press

On 11/16/2017 at 5:32 PM, paperheart said:

"stock" of sequel tanking.  https://www.hsx.com/security/view/JLEA2

 

On 11/16/2017 at 5:30 PM, paperheart said:

oh, for those lofty heights of yore. 38% now.  kudos to mashable.com for nearly nailing this perfectly, now only 3% away from their 33% estimate

On 11/17/2017 at 5:32 PM, paperheart said:

$97MM estimate now.  hard to spin that one. only thing it's got going for it as this point is the calendar.  maybe this'll be the incentive to make a better movie next time around (2022 or so)

http://deadline.com/2017/11/justice-league-opening-weekend-box-office-lower-thor-ragnarok-wonder-the-star-1202211094/

On 11/17/2017 at 4:41 PM, paperheart said:

JLA "stock" is in free fall.  three weeks ago JLA "stock" was at $320 and Thor was at $220, now Thor at $270 and JLA at $269

On 11/18/2017 at 7:09 AM, paperheart said:

B+ Cinema Score, that's not great- same as SS and ASM2 for example, a tick up from BvS.  Hope springs eternal tho, still has nothing but Coco to steamroll it in the next 4 weeks.

On 11/18/2017 at 10:25 AM, paperheart said:

MCU Cinema Scores:

A+ = Avengers

A's = 13 Movies

A- = 3 Movies

B+ = Thor Dark World  - I see the ad tagline now "JLA, it's Cinema Score is equal to Marvel's worst movie"

You'd be more likely to get a negative critical response polling mothers that have just given birth about the looks of their newborns than you would polling fanboys who rush to see these movies on day 1

On 10/23/2017 at 10:39 PM, paperheart said:

so they cut an hour and a half of Snyder's garbage, tossed in 30 minutes of Whedon's re-shoots. this is promising news.

On 11/19/2017 at 11:00 AM, paperheart said:

don't take my word for it, read it directly from the pen of the DCEU's #2 sycophant.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/19/justice-league-box-office-why-a-96m-debut-is-a-disaster/#30f8c213513e

On 11/18/2017 at 10:25 AM, paperheart said:

You'd be more likely to get a negative critical response polling mothers that have just given birth about the looks of their newborns than you would polling fanboys who rush to see these movies on day 1

On 11/19/2017 at 11:06 AM, paperheart said:

oh, and that production budget; guess that's a state secret

Even when Wonder Woman was doing great at the box office, and I posted an update showing this, paperheart had to post what a shame that was because a DC movie had passed up Guardians of the Galaxy 2's domestic total.

DC and Marvel movie results

On 7/20/2017 at 6:30 PM, paperheart said:

a crying shame; if WW had balls, she'd be Superman.

So as long as it is a DC movie, paperheart wants to make sure an unhealthy competition takes place by posting as much negative details in a given DC movie thread as he can happen across. Like Marvel and DC aren't allowed to work toward successful movies in the same universe.

It's okay not to like a movie. It's okay to state you don't like such movies. But when it becomes the behavior Kevin Feige and James Gunn are now even calling out as unhealthy and disruptive, there's a difference.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Bosco685

[Artboy99]

I have been watching some Batman: the Animated series episodes lately and I have to say: that is the depiction of Batman I want to see in film.

Then I watched Batman Begins on TV last night. I have seen the movie easily a 100 times, still it is the best depiction of the character in film to date in my opinion. Wonderful movie. I am slightly biased, as I was involved in the design of the suit.

I would really like WB/ DC to follow the Batman tAs and Batman Begins depiction for their films.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Artboy99

[Bosco685]

21 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

I have been watching some Batman: the Animated series episodes lately and I have to say: that is the depiction of Batman I want to see in film.

Then I watched Batman Begins on TV last night. I have seen the movie easily a 100 times, still it is the best depiction of the character in film to date in my opinion. Wonderful movie. I am slightly biased, as I was involved in the design of the suit.

I would really like WB/ DC to follow the Batman tAs and Batman Begins depiction for their films.

Christian Bale wanted to continue on after initially saying he didn't. It would have been cool if they had made that call instead of bailing on Bale. I'll have to find the article where he shared near the end before the Ben Affleck announcement he really assumed there was going to be a $20M offer phone call. So when it didn't come, and Affleck was announced, he was shocked.

 

[Bosco685]

Found one of the links. But it hits on how shocked Bale was HE didn't get the call.

Christian Bale Talks Ben Affleck As BATMAN And Whether He Contemplated A Return

Quote

Talking about his upcoming movie with Sir Ridley Scott (Exodus: Gods and Kings) in the latest issue of Empire Magazine, Bale was asked to compare the role of Moses to Batman. "It's a little embarrassing to compare Moses to Batman," Bale laughed. "There are similarities, you know, tragic beginning and then a heroic future. But Moses is a little more violent. I'm sure if there'd been guns around at that time, Bruce Wayne might have had a chance."

As for how he felt to learn that Gone Girl's Ben Affleck had been cast as the superhero in Zack Snyder's Man of Steel follow-up, it sounds as if he was as shocked as the rest of us!

 

"I've got to admit initially, even though I felt that it was the right time to stop, there was always a bit of me going, 'Oh go on... Let's do another.' So when I heard there was someone else doing it, there was a moment where I just stopped and stared into nothing for half an hour." 

 

It's not clear whether the offer was ever there to return in Batman v Superman or if he's referring to another movie with Nolan, especially as there were always rumours that Bale was being looked at to reprise the role (despite the continuity headaches that would have caused). "But I'm 40," he adds. "The fact that I'm jealous of someone else playing Batman...I think I should have gotten over it by now. I haven't spoken with Ben, but I emailed him offering bits of advice that I learned the hard way. I would imagine he is doing everything he can to avoid anything that I did."

This would have been cool if it came about.

Christian Bale Set To Return As Batman In Chris Nolan Produced JUSTICE LEAGUE?

Quote

Latino Review's El Mayimbe has revealed a ton of new details about both Justice League and the future of the DC Cinematic Universe! Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder will produce the superhero ensemble (the latter may direct), while Christian Bale is being lined up to return as the Caped Crusader!

 

[Artboy99]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Found one of the links. But it hits on how shocked Bale was HE didn't get the call.

Christian Bale Talks Ben Affleck As BATMAN And Whether He Contemplated A Return

This would have been cool if it came about.

Christian Bale Set To Return As Batman In Chris Nolan Produced JUSTICE LEAGUE?

 

It is my opinion that Nolan is one of the best directors in Hollywood, and I would love to have seen his take on Justice league.

We would have had emotion, character and less glitzy CGI I am sure.

[paperheart]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Let's chat about what is really going on here.

Even when Wonder Woman was doing great at the box office, and I posted an update showing this, paperheart had to post what a shame that was because a DC movie had passed up Guardians of the Galaxy 2's domestic total.

DC and Marvel movie results

So as long as it is a DC movie, paperheart wants to make sure an unhealthy competition takes place by posting as much negative details in a given DC movie thread as he can happen across. Like Marvel and DC aren't allowed to work toward successful movies in the same universe.

It's okay not to like a movie. It's okay to state you don't like such movies. But when it becomes the behavior Kevin Feige and James Gunn are now even calling out as unhealthy and disruptive, there's a difference.

TDK is the greatest superhero movie and it's not even close

IM2 and IM3 were unwatchable garbage

Edited December 13, 2017 by paperheart

[Bosco685]

29 minutes ago, paperheart said:

TDK is the greatest superhero movie and it's not even close

Excuse me. DCEU movie. There!

Anyone can go through those threads and see your edited multiple negative posts. You know - to encourage discussion.

A sweet example.

Suicide Squad movie coming

On 9/5/2016 at 9:18 PM, paperheart said:

Marvel came out of the gate w/ IM- still considered one of the best superhero flicks. WB has laid 3 turds in a row.

Man of Steel - Far from a turd, and makes me question your critic abilities.

Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut - Far from a turd (even the Theatrical Cut is better than your assessment, though crammed too full with content and semi-poorly edited).

Suicide Squad - Mixed bag due to excessive studio meddling. But turd? Please see The Incredible Hulk for that one. Meanwhile, Harley Quinn moves forward via Suicide Squad 2 + more.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

It is my opinion that Nolan is one of the best directors in Hollywood, and I would love to have seen his take on Justice league.

We would have had emotion, character and less glitzy CGI I am sure.

I think Nolan did a good job of keeping a producer leash on Zack Snyder. Even for the neck-break scene, Snyder had to convince Nolan before this was allowed.

So even he saw the meaning of that scene, and felt it was the right action to take.

[Batman]

4 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

I have been watching some Batman: the Animated series episodes lately and I have to say: that is the depiction of Batman I want to see in film.

Then I watched Batman Begins on TV last night. I have seen the movie easily a 100 times, still it is the best depiction of the character in film to date in my opinion. Wonderful movie. I am slightly biased, as I was involved in the design of the suit.

Hats off to you, sir! 

So it was your fault he couldn't turn his head...

 

[Artboy99]

1 minute ago, Batman said:

Hats off to you, sir! 

So it was your fault he couldn't turn his head...

 

actually:

My original design was a fabric based cowl that would allow for easy head movement/ turning as well as easy removal ( the fabric prototype could be pulled back much like the hood of a hoodie as around the neck area was a stretchy material )

DC felt the angry sculpted look of the mask was the way to go instead.