Justice League - restarting the thread 1 1

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, revat said:

he's not publishing a phd paper or writing a Pulitzer prize winning article.  he pulled a number from an article from a reputable news company that has a 'source'.  I don't think its unreasonable to use that number for the sake of discussion of a homemade chart on an internet comic discussion forum. 

People are right to question the number until its officialized or commented on the record by a named source, but unless there's BETTER contravening (or contradictory) evidence, its seems reasonable to use for some internet discussion between comic loving strangers.  What's the alternative?  Just have no discussion of the success/failure of a movie until an audited final number is certified by Ernst and Young (or another Big 4 of your choosing)?

I was concerned there a challenge would be made if you work for Ernst & Young.

[revat]

4 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

6 minutes ago, revat said:

he's not publishing a phd paper or writing a Pulitzer prize winning article.  he pulled a number from an article from a reputable news company that has a 'source'.  I don't think its unreasonable to use that number for the sake of discussion of a homemade chart on an internet comic discussion forum. 

People are right to question the number until its officialized or commented on the record by a named source, but unless there's BETTER contravening (or contradictory) evidence, its seems reasonable to use for some internet discussion between comic loving strangers.  What's the alternative?  Just have no discussion of the success/failure of a movie until an audited final number is certified by Ernst and Young (or another Big 4 of your choosing)?

I was concerned there a challenge would be made if you work for Ernst & Young.

haha

I have no strong opinion for or against Ernst and Young.  I only mentioned them because they are the auditor for Time Warner.

[Wall-Crawler]

At the end of the day, for all the great material they could have drawn from, for whatever reason, they failed to make a good movie.  Whether you are going by $275 M or $300 M budget, the film is going to be seen and is, a failure at the box office.

I'm annoyed that WB could have dropped that ball this bad with a franchise like Justice League.  If they can't succeed with the JL, what hope do lesser tier characters have? This should have been a "slam dunk" and at least been on par with the first Avengers.

I hate to see a big DC film like this fail. I want Marvel and DC, hell, if they re-make a Spawn movie, I hope that is good and does well too.  Hopefully, somehow, WB can "right the ship"? This may be extreme but maybe take a page from Sony's Amazing Spider-Man experience...Take a few years off...And start over?

Edited December 21, 2017 by Wall-Crawler

[Lucky Baru]

8 minutes ago, Wall-Crawler said:

 This may be extreme but maybe take a page from Sony's Amazing Spider-Man experience...Take a few years off...And start over?

One can hope.    Just make Wonder Woman movies until the reboot. 

[Bosco685]

21 minutes ago, Wall-Crawler said:

At the end of the day, for all the great material they could have drawn from, for whatever reason, they failed to make a good movie.  Whether you are going by $275 M or $300 M budget, the film is going to be seen and is, a failure at the box office.

I'm annoyed that WB could have dropped that ball this bad with a franchise like Justice League.  If they can't succeed with the JL, what hope do lesser tier characters have? This should have been a "slam dunk" and at least been on par with the first Avengers.

I hate to see a big DC film like this fail. I want Marvel and DC, hell, if they re-make a Spawn movie, I hope that is good and does well too.  Hopefully, somehow, WB can "right the ship"? This may be extreme but maybe take a page from Sony's Amazing Spider-Man experience...Take a few years off...And start over?

You may have ignored all the scenes that were deleted from Justice League because you hadn't seen the movie yet. But to find out all the details cut that would have better introduced the newer members was a shame to get this down to 2 hours.

Finding out they also removed Darkseid from the film (confirmed by viewers of the early cut) and a Green Lantern scene as a post-credit is a bummer. And heck, I thought Justice League was an okay movie, with many faults.

[Jaydogrules]

38 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Now THAT is a more reasonable approach than trying to pitch someone is attempting to financially fool the forum.

I post these details for the fun of it. Not like I get paid for this friggin grief. Having a few jackoffs post I am financially fooling people like they can't get to the same exact numbers is BS. Moderation should have put that to bed fast.

Gee.  I only made the same suggestion at least three weeks ago in both the original thread and in a PM to you (for the first time), and twice today.  

-J.

[Chip Cataldo]

36 minutes ago, Wall-Crawler said:

...hell, if they re-make a Spawn movie, I hope that is good and does well too. 

It's in the works now, actually. 

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, Wall-Crawler said:

At the end of the day, for all the great material they could have drawn from, for whatever reason, they failed to make a good movie.  Whether you are going by $275 M or $300 M budget, the film is going to be seen and is, a failure at the box office.

I'm annoyed that WB could have dropped that ball this bad with a franchise like Justice League.  If they can't succeed with the JL, what hope do lesser tier characters have? This should have been a "slam dunk" and at least been on par with the first Avengers.

I hate to see a big DC film like this fail. I want Marvel and DC, hell, if they re-make a Spawn movie, I hope that is good and does well too.  Hopefully, somehow, WB can "right the ship"? This may be extreme but maybe take a page from Sony's Amazing Spider-Man experience...Take a few years off...And start over?

This.

I really dislike the Justice League film (and Suicide Squad and BvS) because all three of them should have been easy slam dunks, and instead we got mediocrity, utter mess, and mediocrity.

You've already got storyboards and amazing source material for all three storylines -- from Frank Miller, to John Ostrander, to 60 years of goodness with JLA including epic recent runs by Geoff Johns...

And instead we get weak sauce, despite oversight by Johns himself.

Epic failure with what should been so so easy to get right.

[Wall-Crawler]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

You may have ignored all the scenes that were deleted from Justice League because you hadn't seen the movie yet. But to find out all the details cut that would have better introduced the newer members was a shame to get this down to 2 hours.

Finding out they also removed Darkseid from the film (confirmed by viewers of the early cut) and a Green Lantern scene as a post-credit is a bummer. And heck, I thought Justice League was an okay movie, with many faults.

I am aware of said scenes but I can only comment on the finished product WB chose to actually "show" the movie going public.

Most will never know or bother to seek out those scenes. Would they have made the film better for sure? We will never know.

With all of that said, as I stated earlier maybe they should have opted then for a two-parter to get a more fulsome experience.

I gave it an "ok" rating too but this movie was a big let down there is no way around it. I am also no "Marvel Zombie" as I particularly didn't like a lot of Thor:Ragnarok either.

[PunisherPunisherPunisher]

Would love to see a Wonder Woman movie every 6 months 

 

[Bosco685]

29 minutes ago, Wall-Crawler said:

I am aware of said scenes but I can only comment on the finished product WB chose to actually "show" the movie going public.

Most will never know or bother to seek out those scenes. Would they have made the film better for sure? We will never know.

With all of that said, as I stated earlier maybe they should have opted then for a two-parter to get a more fulsome experience.

I gave it an "ok" rating too but this movie was a big let down there is no way around it. I am also no "Marvel Zombie" as I particularly didn't like a lot of Thor:Ragnarok either.

There was plenty to like in this movie. So I'm not calling this a loss. But that's the bummer is there was plenty to like, such as the Superman vs JL fight scene or funny scenes such Aquaman sitting on Wonder Woman's lasso. And loads of people enjoyed the Ezra Miller character and his lines, versus your experience.

But it is all the missed opportunity to make this great by meddling late in the process that detracts from the movie. That's why the CGI looked so unfinished.

[Bosco685]

53 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

This.

I really dislike the Justice League film (and Suicide Squad and BvS) because all three of them should have been easy slam dunks, and instead we got mediocrity, utter mess, and mediocrity.

You've already got storyboards and amazing source material for all three storylines -- from Frank Miller, to John Ostrander, to 60 years of goodness with JLA including epic recent runs by Geoff Johns...

And instead we get weak sauce, despite oversight by Johns himself.

Epic failure with what should been so so easy to get right.

The gorilla tactics are what turns these threads to a mess. And like you have pointed out before, you and others do this purposely so you can protest what you deem as a failure.

Was the Batman v Superman a failure? There are many folks that like this movie. Especially the Ultimate Cut. Suicide Squad is where the studio went off-the-rails with turning over the unfinished product to a trailer production company leading to 6 versions to choose from. That's nuts!

But due to the aggressive protests via social media and other methods, WB took it further and decided to massively alter Justice League. We end up with what was experienced now. Second-guessing alterations and rushed product.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Bosco685

[jsilverjanet]

Could have been worse, could have been Star Wars the last Jedi bad

[paperheart]

16 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

Could have been worse, could have been Star Wars the last Jedi bad

it's a shame you don't have a blog w/ your reviews of the best movies of the year: Dunkirk, Ladbybird, Shape of Water, 3 Billboards, Florida Project, Get Out - seen any of them?

[jsilverjanet]

10 minutes ago, paperheart said:

it's a shame you don't have a blog w/ your reviews of the best movies of the year: Dunkirk, Ladbybird, Shape of Water, 3 Billboards, Florida Project, Get Out - seen any of them?

Dunkirk I thought was brilliant 

I plan to see Shape of Water 

i saw Get Out and thought it was good

i assume your post was an attack on me but I’m not sure why. We can always chat about film, I watch many many movies both good and bad, both acclaimed and others that go under the radar. Old and new. You’d be surprised to realize my knowledge of the subject isn’t limited to these popcorn films.

Im a little surprised quite frankly by your response to my post. 

[paperheart]

9 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

Dunkirk I thought was brilliant 

I plan to see Shape of Water 

i saw Get Out and thought it was good

i assume your post was an attack on me but I’m not sure why. We can always chat about film, I watch many many movies both good and bad, both acclaimed and others that go under the radar. Old and new. You’d be surprised to realize my knowledge of the subject isn’t limited to these popcorn films.

Im a little surprised quite frankly by your response to my post. 

no, i can tell you're passionate just was wondering what you thought of the better movies released this year

[jsilverjanet]

my Big regret is not seeing Blade Runner on the big screen. I may live to regret not seeing that like I did not seeing Interstellar on the big screen

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, paperheart said:

it's a shame you don't have a blog w/ your reviews of the best movies of the year: Dunkirk, Ladbybird, Shape of Water, 3 Billboards, Florida Project, Get Out - seen any of them?

What did you think of Justice League?

[Bosco685]

 

[Bosco685]

So as not to deal with personal character attacks over a movie's production budget like have been posted recently leading to a lot of noise over nothing...

Spoiler

Quote

16 hours ago, revat said:

When I see the article saying "MORE than $300M", all I see is a lot of articles MISQUOTING the WSJ.  Have we seen any other ones quoting another actual source? (even if unnamed?)

Unfortunately, someone that may feel like their mission is to bash DC movies they dislike, any statement or financial hint to the contrary becomes a personal attack.

Look at when paperheart tried to jump in and pitch I lied about financials on here concerning Amazing Spider-Man 2. Yet what he misread was the person I was debating the topic with was saying Man of Steel vs Amazing Spider-Man 2 with all-in costs proved Man of Steel was a garbage movie because WB/DC had blown so much on marketing budget (the old fallback whenever trying to show DC movies fail - but then we don't account for that in Marvel movies). So when I added it all in to show production and marketing budget between the two films (and Man of Steel was publicly recognized for $160M in product placement revenue to counter any marketing budget), it was clear the person was wrong.

So paperheart comes into this thread stating I've been known to lie before on financials. Like this is a 'thing'. But guess what? In the same thread he calls me out about, paperheart quotes the same combined numbers on Page 1

Amazing Spider-Man 2 passes Man of Steel at Box Office

On 5/26/2014 at 2:06 PM, paperheart said:

 

$425MM to produce and distribute and it won't touch $750mm WW with barely $200mm domestic = financial dud. also a critical disaster. stock of ASM3 tanking, stock of Sinister Six collapsed. the likelihood Marc Webb is attached to #3 is remote. congratulations, indeed.

 

On 5/26/2014 at 2:08 PM, Bosco685 said:

 

 

3 x budget vs. 1.6 x budget. Plus MOS had that $160-$170 MM in advertising revenue it picked up from Carl's Jr., Sears, IHOP and other companies.

 

But for me, I always want to see these big movies succeed rather than get into a company vs. company contest. The better they all do, the more attention on the overall hobby.

 

Go figure!

Why would someone try and make up a story I am known to lie about financials when they stated the very same combined number? And I clearly point out in my post the difference is MoS had a massive product revenue number to counter the marketing budget?

To discredit someone just to be nasty. Yet there he is, posting the same ASM2 number. Silly!

... Without a production budget officially confirmed by WB, right now the estimated target for the studio is hitting $675M to break even. Now with new movies rolling out, and without any special events or extended theater counts, I just don't see it happening. Like Ragnarok, it is experiencing a drastic drop - though sooner than the latter movie. It would be a miracle.