Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[@therealsilvermane]

18 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

When Walker got knocked off the truck and fell onto the car the first thing I thought was how is he getting up.  Any of us would be in the hospital after that.

Eh, looking at the scene and considering Walker's not a super soldier, I buy it.

First, it's a comic book action movie so people have a little more stamina then they would in real life. Yes, if this were a Martin Scorsese film, considering they'd even be able to fight on top of a speeding trailer truck without falling off, if a gangster got thrown off the truck into the windshield of a car, that gangster would be as good as swimming with fishes. But it's a comic book movie, so you get a little breathing room in a character's hit points. Then, Walker's Captain America outfit appears to be heavily armored which would protect him obviously in high impact situations. Also, as he hit the windshield of the oncoming vehicle, that should have served to absorb the impact. Also, consider that Walker is a superb athlete and former football player, there is a science and technique to falling and taking a hit. For instance, there are ways to fall where you can distribute the weight of impact to the entire body. It's one of the first things they sometimes teach in sports and martial arts, how to take a fall.

Anyway, for a comic book movie, or for an action movie in general, I found it acceptable.

[theCapraAegagrus]

10 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Eh, looking at the scene and considering Walker's not a super soldier, I buy it.

First, it's a comic book action movie so people have a little more stamina then they would in real life. Yes, if this were a Martin Scorsese film, considering they'd even be able to fight on top of a speeding trailer truck without falling off, if a gangster got thrown off the truck into the windshield of a car, that gangster would be as good as swimming with fishes. But it's a comic book movie, so you get a little breathing room in a character's hit points. Then, Walker's Captain America outfit appears to be heavily armored which would protect him obviously in high impact situations. Also, as he hit the windshield of the oncoming vehicle, that should have served to absorb the impact. Also, consider that Walker is a superb athlete and former football player, there is a science and technique to falling and taking a hit. For instance, there are ways to fall where you can distribute the weight of impact to the entire body. It's one of the first things they sometimes teach in sports and martial arts, how to take a fall.

Anyway, for a comic book movie, or for an action movie in general, I found it acceptable.

That's not how physics works.

[@therealsilvermane]

6 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

That's not how physics works.

Yeah it is. Why else do football players wear pads and soldiers wear body armor?

[fantastic_four]

2 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Unfortunately for Mr Brubaker, and many other contributors to America's pop cultural identity, we live in a country whose main economic model is capitalism, a system that historically leaves workers in the dust and rewards the owners and/or gatekeepers of the means of production. I guess it's not morally right but that's the way of life we've all chosen for ourselves.

Capitalism is inevitable as long as the resources we need to both live and thrive are scarce.  Marx was right that as automation causes the value of human labor to move closer and closer to zero that capitalism will inevitably fail, but he didn't seem willing to wait for it to happen naturally.  I expect that it will, but not for centuries or perhaps a millennium or more.  We'll need full robotic automation, off-Earth mining, and DRAMATICALLY better power sources--probably even better than fusion reactors--to make it a reality.  Until then we're all capitalists, albeit with an amount of government market control that varies by nation.  Even China is capitalist no matter how much it likes to pretend it isn't.

It's fun to hypothesize what a post-capitalist society would be like where resources are effectively infinite and the value of human labor to meet the basic needs of everyone is very close to zero (i.e. money has no value).  Certainly the most popular cultural vision of that is Star Trek, but there are many examples.  I'd love to see a work that focuses on it completely.  Wall-E did, but it was fairly dystopian.  The Jetsons did but it didn't go into any detail about how they got there, it just had fun with what civilization would be like if we ever did get there.  Some short stories focus on it, but I'd prefer a novel or film, if not an entire serial fiction.

Edited March 29, 2021 by fantastic_four

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah it is. Why else do football players wear pads and soldiers wear body armor?

That's not how sports pads or body armor works, either.

[@therealsilvermane]

6 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

That's not how sports pads or body armor works, either.

Eh so the pads and helmets that football players don’t actually protect them from impact? Motorcycle helmets are just for looks and a way for government to control us? Mind blown. Not really

[theCapraAegagrus]

20 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Eh so the pads and helmets that football players don’t actually protect them from impact? Motorcycle helmets are just for looks and a way for government to control us? Mind blown. Not really

Not completely. And often, not enough.

[fantastic_four]

28 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Eh so the pads and helmets that football players don’t actually protect them from impact? Motorcycle helmets are just for looks

They protect your skin and they keep your bones from breaking, but your tissues and organs still shift inside your body in debilitating ways.  The whole NFL brain damage (CTE) controversy won't go away because nobody knows how to design a helmet to prevent your brains from sloshing around inside your skull when you get hit hard enough.

[jcjames]

24 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

They protect your skin and they keep your bones from breaking, but your tissues and organs still shift inside your body in debilitating ways.  The whole NFL brain damage (CTE) controversy won't go away because nobody knows how to design a helmet to prevent your brains from sloshing around inside your skull when you get hit hard enough.

This was always a sticking point whenever Tony would get hurled through a tree by Thor, or slammed into the ground by Thanos or Hulk. I always thought to myself, "His brain and innards should be mush after that." 

[@therealsilvermane]

31 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

They protect your skin and they keep your bones from breaking, but your tissues and organs still shift inside your body in debilitating ways.  The whole NFL brain damage (CTE) controversy won't go away because nobody knows how to design a helmet to prevent your brains from sloshing around inside your skull when you get hit hard enough.

Helmets, padding, and body armor still distribute the impact over a greater area and protect the wearer from greater bodily harm had they not been wearing such protection. It doesn't completely prevent injury but does minimize the risk of injury. Also it's a movie universe where Tony Stark survives falls from miles in the sky because he's wearing a metal suit.

[fantastic_four]

4 minutes ago, jcjames said:

This was always a sticking point whenever Tony would get hurled through a tree by Thor, or slammed into the ground by Thanos or Hulk. I always thought to myself, "His brain and innards should be mush after that." 

Yep, I thought the same thing during those fights.  But we're talking about Stark here, and that means nearly-infinite tech, so it could be written to explain that he designed some way to absorb force into the armor.

[@therealsilvermane]

25 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Yep, I thought the same thing during those fights.  But we're talking about Stark here, and that means nearly-infinite tech, so it could be written to explain that he designed some way to absorb force into the armor.

I think most viewers assume that Stark's Iron Man armor protects him from the wrath of Asgardian gods, Hulk, and other severe force trauma. So it can be assumed that Steve Rogers Captain America had some kind of high tech protective capabilities designed into his own suit to go along with his super soldier invulnerability. In turn, I think it can be assumed that the government might put even stronger protective technology into John Walker's Captain America suit especially since he lacks the super soldier invulnerability.

[Bosco685]

Quote

How do Avengers get paid? They don't, according to the series premiere of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Six months after blipping back to life alongside half of humanity in Avengers: Endgame, Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie) needs a loan to keep his family's seafood business afloat. Back home in Louisiana, Sam reunites with his sister, single working mother Sarah (Adepero Oduye), who has spent the past five years keeping that boat from sinking. Refusing to sell off their family's legacy, Sam is determined to get a loan but faces a foe even an Avenger can't defeat: a loan officer (Vince Pisani).

 

"It's funny because that scene, and that moment, ended up triggering everybody at Marvel," Falcon and Winter Soldier creator Malcolm Spellman told Entertainment Tonight. "We were getting calls from Kevin [Feige, president of Marvel Studios], from Lou [D'Esposito, co-president of Marvel Studios], from Victoria [Alonso, EVP of Production], from Nate [Moore, VP of Production & Development], like everyone at Marvel wanted input there."

 

"Whatever it is about it, it has resonated with the people that have been interviewing with us, it resonated with everyone working there," Spellman added about the bank scene. "So I think the reason you keyed in on it is you got to see a moment where a superhero is truly a regular person, and hopefully we answered the question to some degree, that it ain't easy being [superheroes]. A lot of superheroes are broke, especially now that Tony Stark is gone."

 

When the loan officer asks whether there is a "fund for heroes," or if Earth's mightiest heroes were paid by Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr.) when he was around, Sam says, "It doesn't really work like that." The revelation that the late billionaire didn't pay the Avengers quickly became a hot topic on social media.

 

As the loan officer points out, Sam's financials are "all over the place." The Falcon spent two years on the run with a fugitive Steve Rogers (Chris Evans) as part of his Secret Avengers before Thanos (Josh Brolin) snapped his fingers, erasing Sam and half of all other life in the universe out of existence for five years.

 

Responding to Sam's lack of income since 2018, Sarah asks: "How can you have income if you don't exist?"

 

The financial struggle "gets to the humanity of it," Spellman said. "Because we had more time, you get to spend time in a scene like that, in a bank scene, where you're dealing with someone being famous but maybe being broke and how do you make your money as a hero? It's a blast. I mean, Anthony and Sebastian [Stan] are both able to play with a given moment in a way that's electric, so half of what you're doing is creating moments for them to just do what they do."

I really like the show. This is still a lame plot as Tony Stark may be gone. But his family and fortune have not disappeared. So it isn't like Pepper wouldn't do all she can to keep Tony's superhero family well cared for.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

I really like the show. This is still a lame plot as Tony Stark may be gone. But his family and fortune have not disappeared. So it isn't like Pepper wouldn't do all she can to keep Tony's superhero family well cared for.

It turns out that once Tony passed, Pepper revealed herself to be the power hungry capitalist pig we always knew she was, so any handouts to these drain-on-society superheroes were off the table, much less under the table.

She was also quoted as saying, "Don't ever call me Pepper, anymore!"

Edited March 29, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

41 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

It turns out that once Tony passed, Pepper revealed herself to be the power hungry capitalist pig we always knew she was, so any handouts to these drain-on-society superheroes were off the table, much less under the table.

She was also quoted as saying, "Don't ever call me Pepper, anymore!"

I don't think so. Worst-case, she would sell a franchise to each Avengers to cut them into her scented candle business like some form of pyramid scheme where she gets 75% of the profits to account for her brand name and 'special candle essence' and they keep the rest after paying all expenses including the cost of molding each candle.

[theCapraAegagrus]

13 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I really like the show. This is still a lame plot as Tony Stark may be gone. But his family and fortune have not disappeared. So it isn't like Pepper wouldn't do all she can to keep Tony's superhero family well cared for.

Tony Stark didn't really know or care for Sam Wilson, though.

[Bosco685]

59 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Tony Stark didn't really know or care for Sam Wilson, though.

Doesn't matter about personal feelings. They all played a role in finally defeating Thanos and saving the universe from his goals.

Unless now the opinion is Tony Stark was a petty character that would hold grudges against his fellow heroes. Including Steve Rogers. Which we know that is not the case, as even out of respect for Steve he would have taken care of his partner Sam.

[Bosco685]

Building out that pyramid scheme, yo!

[theCapraAegagrus]

35 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Doesn't matter about personal feelings. They all played a role in finally defeating Thanos and saving the universe from his goals.

Unless now the opinion is Tony Stark was a petty character that would hold grudges against his fellow heroes. Including Steve Rogers. Which we know that is not the case, as even out of respect for Steve he would have taken care of his partner Sam.

He made amends with Steve Rogers in Endgame. Just because you have money doesn't mean that you give it away willy-nilly. I'll use real-life lottery winners as a realistic example.

I don't think that Tony Stark (or Pepper Potts) is a person to discredit personal responsibility. Did Pepper ever meet Sam? "Oh, hey Steve. Oh, your friend's sister that I never met is in financial trouble? Sam who?"

It's a large stretch. It's as bad as assuming that Bruce Wayne should stalk Martha Kent and buy her house. They don't know each other. It doesn't make sense.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Angel of Death said:

Tony Stark didn't really know or care for Sam Wilson, though.

Of course, Sam's wings are Stark tech (as mentioned at the beginning of Episode One) which means Stark gave them to Sam?