Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[thunsicker]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Been talked about extensively how this was another plothole where Hulk via The Blip brought everyone back in Endgame (the movie with no plotholes). And from all we have seen, right back to where they were Snapped.

But oddly enough where if any other studio did this it would be called out to death, those same folks quickly fill in the hole with 'This is DOCTOR Banner so his incredible brain accounted for all the hazards'.

People on airplanes, boats, were driving on busy highways that now would be hit, sailors in submarines that were on an active mission, etc. Banner accounts for it all with his incredible brain.

Tony Stark to Banner: "Okay, remember, everyone Thanos snapped away five years ago, you’re just bringing them back to now, today. Don't change anything from the last five years."

No kidding.  Putting five magic stones in a metal gauntlet forged by space dwarves and with a snap removing half of all sentient creatures in the universe is totally believable, but bring them back with a snap and not having them on the freeway or merged with another person?!?!  That’s a bridge too far.  We’re getting beyond what is believable.

[Bosco685]

32 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

No kidding.  Putting five magic stones in a metal gauntlet forged by space dwarves and with a snap removing half of all sentient creatures in the universe is totally believable, but bring them back with a snap and not having them on the freeway or merged with another person?!?!  That’s a bridge too far.  We’re getting beyond what is believable.

Oh, I don't doubt there would be people in a Sony or WB/DC thread proclaiming "I really wanted to enjoy this film BUT that plothole took me out of the moment..." You shouldn't either.

Over the years there have been enough posts like that in this section you can call out who is going to post it. It's in their DNA now.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Bosco685

[bentbryan]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Oh, I don't doubt there would be people in a Sony or WB/DC thread proclaiming "I really wanted to enjoy this film BUT that plothole took me out of the moment..." You shouldn't either.

Over the years there have been enough posts like that in this section you can call out who is going to post it. It's in their DNA now.

You mean plot hole like when a regular guy just puts on a costume and can suddenly stand toe to toe with super soldiers and can throw and catch a shield like the real Captain America after a couple weeks training type plot hole? 
 

If these super soldiers can push over a telephone pole with ease then they would have torn those guys up like wet newspaper. See Suicide Squad trailer, yeah it would look just like what King Shark did. 
 

I really enjoyed this episode (and Endgame) but you really have to let go of logic otherwise it’s all just so dumb. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by bentbryan

[Bosco685]

17 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

You mean plot hole like when a regular guy just puts on a costume and can suddenly stand toe to toe with super soldiers and can throw and catch a shield like the real Captain America after a couple weeks training type plot hole? 
 

If these super soldiers can push over a telephone pole with ease then they would have torn those guys up like wet newspaper. See Suicide Squad trailer, yeah it would look just like what King Shark did. 
 

I really enjoyed this episode (and Endgame) but you really have to let go of logic otherwise it’s all just so dumb. 

I think that rule applies to all these films and TV shows.

But you have folks on here that sport-nitpick non-MCU productions but then take offense if you apply the same logic to what they worship. Yet even the second biggest movie of all time is chock full of plot holes. The reality of the situation.

Now as far as how long John Walker trained to wield the shield I'm not sure. But we did see even as someone with Olympic athlete-like condition got toss off the truck. This made a lot of sense as he isn't U.S. Agent yet. 

[gadzukes]

Sam IS going to become the new Captain America by the end of this series, right?  We've seen footage of him practicing throwing the shield so he and Bucky must steal it.  Maybe Bucky will don the costume and take up the shield?

I really enjoyed the 1st two episodes.

Zemo is hopefully coming next episode.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by gadzukes

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, gadzukes said:

Sam IS going to become the new Captain America by the end of this series, right?  We've seen footage of him practicing throwing the shield so he and Bucky must steal it.  Maybe Bucky will don the costume and take up the shield?

I really enjoyed the 1st two episodes.

Zemo is hopefully coming next episode.

 

But I wonder if Sam will have to go through U.S. Agent to get there. Or will they save this for Season Two when U.S. Agent comes to get the shield back.

No reason to condense all these stories in one season. Whether influenced by or far distant from the comic book stories.

[comicginger1789]

20 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

 Never mind - I just did some reading up on The Power Broker - I thought that was a code name rather than an actual character.

So, per the comics, it’s likely Walker will taste defeat again at the hands of the Flag Smashers, go to the Power Broker for super serum himself, and be driven mad, likely turning into the evil version of US Agent in the process. So the show will likely focus on Walker’s transition to the dark side, as expected.

This was what I was thinking. Overall while fun I have found this show to seemingly be predictable. And I get the feeling that, unlike Wandavision, the events from this show will not play largely into the MCU future.

I could be very wrong. For all I know Omega Red shows up and confirms mutants in the MCU 

[Bosco685]

20 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

This was what I was thinking. Overall while fun I have found this show to seemingly be predictable. And I get the feeling that, unlike Wandavision, the events from this show will not play largely into the MCU future.

I could be very wrong. For all I know Omega Red shows up and confirms mutants in the MCU 

Now I'm really going to look over every detail.

[comicginger1789]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Now I'm really going to look over every detail.

You haven’t heard that theory? Dunno where it stemmed from but originally Omega Red was speculated for the Black Widow movie. That caused a perennial $1-5 book to become a $20-40 book. And now once again someone has rumoured it for this show and it’s a $50-100 book. Crazy for a comic with a good half million copies out there

[Bosco685]

20 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

You haven’t heard that theory? Dunno where it stemmed from but originally Omega Red was speculated for the Black Widow movie. That caused a perennial $1-5 book to become a $20-40 book. And now once again someone has rumoured it for this show and it’s a $50-100 book. Crazy for a comic with a good half million copies out there

Even with the Deadpool 2 appearance that was cut that ended up on the deleted feature that caused a stir.

I think the character is just so appreciated no matter how many copies are out there, people want to have a piece. Even if that means in every household. 

[AJLewandoski]

4 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

This was what I was thinking. Overall while fun I have found this show to seemingly be predictable. And I get the feeling that, unlike Wandavision, the events from this show will not play largely into the MCU future.

I could be very wrong. For all I know Omega Red shows up and confirms mutants in the MCU 

I mean we've got some pretty big seeds being planted. You have US Agent who will spin out of this into...something...be it Thunderbolts or maybe the Nomad show they registered the trademark for. The Powerbroker could be a new threat if he makes it out of this alive and starts experimenting on other people like USAF Torres who becomes the second Falcon. Isaiah Bradley's grandson who answered the door is Eli Bradley aka Patriot the leader of the Young Avengers so he's gonna be a player soon. Sam's for sure becoming Cap by the end so there's that. Zemo also seems like a prime candidate for a Thunderbolts member. We haven't even made it to Madripoor yet, so who knows what's going on there and whatever else happens in the next 4 episodes. I'm optimistic I think most of the shows will serve to push forward a handful of new projects and storylines.

[Gatsby77]

Did Walker ever become Nomad in the comics?

I’d stopped reading Cap by that time - but Nomad 1 was Bucky, and Nomad 2 (who had the miniseries & ongoing in the early ‘90s) was Jack Monroe.

[comicginger1789]

5 hours ago, AJLewandoski said:

I mean we've got some pretty big seeds being planted. You have US Agent who will spin out of this into...something...be it Thunderbolts or maybe the Nomad show they registered the trademark for. The Powerbroker could be a new threat if he makes it out of this alive and starts experimenting on other people like USAF Torres who becomes the second Falcon. Isaiah Bradley's grandson who answered the door is Eli Bradley aka Patriot the leader of the Young Avengers so he's gonna be a player soon. Sam's for sure becoming Cap by the end so there's that. Zemo also seems like a prime candidate for a Thunderbolts member. We haven't even made it to Madripoor yet, so who knows what's going on there and whatever else happens in the next 4 episodes. I'm optimistic I think most of the shows will serve to push forward a handful of new projects and storylines.

Good points! I think what I mean to say is this phase will not be impacted greatly by the end result of this show. But yes in terms of it being a “hey here is a character who becomes someone we could use” or “here is a character who joins this team in the comics”, definitely. 
 

How far away from a Young Avengers movie/show would we even be really? At least 5-10 years maybe more. And hey kudos to those who speculated in 2015 something that eventually happens in 2033! 

[AJLewandoski]

16 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

Good points! I think what I mean to say is this phase will not be impacted greatly by the end result of this show. But yes in terms of it being a “hey here is a character who becomes someone we could use” or “here is a character who joins this team in the comics”, definitely. 
 

How far away from a Young Avengers movie/show would we even be really? At least 5-10 years maybe more. And hey kudos to those who speculated in 2015 something that eventually happens in 2033! 

Yea as far as widespread ramifications there probably won't be a ton, certainly nothing earth shattering.

I'd say it's a property of immediate potential. They'll recast Billy and Tommy with older actors in Doctor Strange 2 or wherever Wanda finds them again. Patriot will be the same as FatWS. Kate Bishop is coming up in Hawkeye. They already hired a third more high profile actress for Cassie Lang to be Stature in Ant Man 3. Hulking will probably show up in Secret Invasion, but maybe sooner they kind of have Skrulls popping up everywhere...Iron Lad is a bit trickier considering Kang will be the bad guy in Ant Man 3, but I'm sure they have it all sorted out already. I'd say it's either a movie or a Disney+ show in 3 years tops. 

[jsilverjanet]

Mission

Report

[Bosco685]

13 hours ago, AJLewandoski said:

I mean we've got some pretty big seeds being planted. You have US Agent who will spin out of this into...something...be it Thunderbolts or maybe the Nomad show they registered the trademark for. The Powerbroker could be a new threat if he makes it out of this alive and starts experimenting on other people like USAF Torres who becomes the second Falcon. Isaiah Bradley's grandson who answered the door is Eli Bradley aka Patriot the leader of the Young Avengers so he's gonna be a player soon. Sam's for sure becoming Cap by the end so there's that. Zemo also seems like a prime candidate for a Thunderbolts member. We haven't even made it to Madripoor yet, so who knows what's going on there and whatever else happens in the next 4 episodes. I'm optimistic I think most of the shows will serve to push forward a handful of new projects and storylines.

There was an earlier article how what is going to happen to The Cap in becoming U.S. Agent is going to have long-lasting impacts. I could see them doing another Winter Soldier going from Cap 1 to Cap 2 to Civil War to Black Panther to Infinity War. They could have him in and out of a few films as he goes from hero (Falcon/Winter Soldier) to villain (some future production) to redeemed hero again (Phase 5 production?).

[drotto]

I think all these Marvel streaming shows may suffer from the same roadblock.   How much will the casual fan, the one who sees most of the movies,  but not all of them, the one who goes to the movies because it is a cultural event, watch these shows in this fashion?

 

Remember these are behind a pay wall and will require someone to pay monthly to watch something once per week.  Is that a price point and commitment that casual fans are willing to make. Especially, if these arw people not interested in paying for yet another streaming service or not interested in other Disney content. 

 

Therefore,  their may be a limit to how much they can do story wise, and what level of big events they can do given the format and distribution.  So are these fleshing out storied, but not essential or can they do big things here.  Things where the next movie might not make sense if you do not see the show.  The already somewhat failed with this and Agents of Shield. Even with this show they can do a lot, but the basic plot seems to be Falcon excepting his place as the new Captian.  To a casual fan, they skip this show and just say yeah Endgame did that anyway, we already knew he was the new Captian. The show is then just fleshing things out, not essential.

[@therealsilvermane]

24 minutes ago, drotto said:

I think all these Marvel streaming shows may suffer from the same roadblock.   How much will the casual fan, the one who sees most of the movies,  but not all of them, the one who goes to the movies because it is a cultural event, watch these shows in this fashion?

 

Remember these are behind a pay wall and will require someone to pay monthly to watch something once per week.  Is that a price point and commitment that casual fans are willing to make. Especially, if these arw people not interested in paying for yet another streaming service or not interested in other Disney content. 

 

Therefore,  their may be a limit to how much they can do story wise, and what level of big events they can do given the format and distribution.  So are these fleshing out storied, but not essential or can they do big things here.  Things where the next movie might not make sense if you do not see the show.  The already somewhat failed with this and Agents of Shield. Even with this show they can do a lot, but the basic plot seems to be Falcon excepting his place as the new Captian.  To a casual fan, they skip this show and just say yeah Endgame did that anyway, we already knew he was the new Captian. The show is then just fleshing things out, not essential.

Well so far both WandaVision and Falcon Winter Soldier seem to be as big a cultural event as any of the movies. Both shows introduce major new characters it seems and also feature the significant power-up of its star. Wanda has become the Scarlet Witch and Sam Wilson will earn the right of the mantle of Captain America. WandaVision also left significant loose ends that need tying up in Doctor Strange 2.

It seems to me these Disney+ Marvel shows so far are essential viewing. As much as any of the movies anyway. Casual viewers don't have Disney+ just for Marvel. They also have it for Star Wars and Disney and Pixar films in general.

100 million subscribers is not bad numbers.

[@therealsilvermane]

14 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Did Walker ever become Nomad in the comics?

I’d stopped reading Cap by that time - but Nomad 1 was Bucky, and Nomad 2 (who had the miniseries & ongoing in the early ‘90s) was Jack Monroe.

I think Steve Rogers was essentially Nomad in Infinity War without being named Nomad. Made-up names don't seem to have that much significance in the MCU. Clint Barton was basically Ronin in Endgame but never used the name Ronin. In real life, I guess it would seem silly to run around calling yourself some made-up name when everybody knows who you are, or at least your co-workers do. Made-up names seem to have more use in the MCU for PR scenarios like Captain America. But behind the scenes, everybody just called him Steve.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, bentbryan said:

You mean plot hole like when a regular guy just puts on a costume and can suddenly stand toe to toe with super soldiers and can throw and catch a shield like the real Captain America after a couple weeks training type plot hole? 

I was a little shocked to see John Walker toss the Shield around in Episode 2 like the old Cap. I think what Marvel might be preparing us for is that you don't have to be a Super Soldier to wield the Shield. All you need is a little training and you can do it, too. I guess Sam will figure that out. Maybe the point is it takes more than being able to throw the Shield and fit in the costume to be Captain America.

Edited March 28, 2021 by @therealsilvermane