Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[drotto]

32 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Well so far both WandaVision and Falcon Winter Soldier seem to be as big a cultural event as any of the movies. Both shows introduce major new characters it seems and also feature the significant power-up of its star. Wanda has become the Scarlet Witch and Sam Wilson will earn the right of the mantle of Captain America. WandaVision also left significant loose ends that need tying up in Doctor Strange 2.

It seems to me these Disney+ Marvel shows so far are essential viewing. As much as any of the movies anyway. Casual viewers don't have Disney+ just for Marvel. They also have it for Star Wars and Disney and Pixar films in general.

100 million subscribers is not bad numbers.

I disagree. This is the Google trends for a 5 year period. Yellow is Endgame. Red is WandaVision. Blue is Falcone and the Winter Soldier.  Are people really talking or caring about these shows? Is that blue blip showing any interest beyond the hard core fans.  This is not the trend of lots of interest with casual fans.  Where Endgame shows massive interest with everyone.

Edited March 28, 2021 by drotto

[@therealsilvermane]

22 minutes ago, drotto said:

I disagree. This is the Google trends for a 5 year period. Yellow is Endgame. Red is WandaVision. Blue is Falcone and the Winter Soldier.  Are people really talking or caring about these shows? Is that blue blip showing any interest beyond the hard core fans.  This is not the trend of lots of interest with casual fans.  Where Endgame shows massive interest with everyone.

Okay maybe any MCU movie except Endgame, which was the cultural movie phenomenon of our times.

[drotto]

17 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Okay maybe any MCU movie except Endgame, which was the cultural movie phenomenon of our times.

Ok here is all streaming TV shows. Green is the Boys. Red is the Mandalorian. Yellow is WandaVision. Blue is Falcon and the Winter Soldier. That is a big interest drop off from WandaVision so far for FWS, which at this point has interest far below other large "geek" properties for the year.

Edited March 28, 2021 by drotto

[Bosco685]

Winter Soldier Co-Creator Has Mixed Feelings About New Marvel Show

Quote

The series is just one of a number of Marvel shows bringing the MCU to the realm of television. At many billions of dollars in revenue, the MCU is one of the highest-grossing media franchises of all time. Marvel comics characters sit at the pinnacle of pop culture and appear in films, TV series, video games, and collectibles of every shape and size. Indeed, the characters created by artists and writers have extended far beyond the panels; they have ushered in a superhero mania across pop culture.

 

With the Winter Soldier getting much more screen presence in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, Brubaker is asking why he and Steve Epting are not being compensated for their work on the character. In his blog/newsletter, the seven-time Eisner Award-winning comics writer revealed that he won't be watching the series anytime soon. Though he is overjoyed at the popularity of the character, has only good things to say about the people behind the camera, and wishes all the best for Stan, Brubaker opened up about the sickening feeling of watching his creation rake in millions from a distance. Read his quote in full below:

 

And of course, today the FALCON AND WINTER SOLDIER show debuts on Disney+, which I sadly have very mixed feelings about. I’m really happy for Sebastian Stan, who I think is both a great guy and the perfect Bucky/Winter Soldier, and I’m glad to see him getting more screen time finally. Also, Anthony Mackie is amazing as the Falcon, and everyone at Marvel Studios that I’ve ever met (all the way up to Kevin Feige) have been nothing but kind to me… but at the same time, for the most part all Steve Epting and I have gotten for creating the Winter Soldier and his storyline is a “thanks” here or there, and over the years that’s become harder and harder to live with. I’ve even seen higher-ups on the publishing side try to take credit for my work a few times, which was pretty galling (to be clear, I’m NOT talking about Tom Breevort, who was a great editor and really helpful).

 

So yeah, mixed feeling, and maybe it’ll always be like that (but I sure hope not). Work-for-hire work is what it is, and I’m honestly thrilled to have co-created something that’s become such a big part of pop culture – or even pop subculture with all the Bucky-Steve slash fiction – and that run on Cap was one of the happiest times of my career, certainly while doing superhero comics. Also, I have a great life as a writer and much of it is because of Cap and the Winter Soldier bringing so many readers to my other work. But I also can’t deny feeling a bit sick to my stomach sometimes when my inbox fills up with people wanting comments on the show.

 

So… I’m sure I’ll watch it, and you should too if you’re a Marvel movie universe fan, but I’ll probably be waiting a while to check it out myself. So please don’t email me any spoilers, I guess, but go give Sebastian Stan lots of love wherever he is online.

Wow!

[drotto]

16 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Winter Soldier Co-Creator Has Mixed Feelings About New Marvel Show

Wow!

I had seen this article a few days ago.  It makes me sad.  That Brubaker and Epting run is amazing story telling.  I have an Epting Black Widow original sketch from that run hanging on my wall.  It was clear to me from the first episode they the were borrowing heavily from that run for FWS.  I personally think they should have just adapted that entire run, I hold it in that high regard, and it seems to me it begs for direct adaptation. 

 

With Marvel, it sometimes feels like changes are made to story, not to improve it, or even make it fit into the MCU better, but to give them some distance from the original creators so royalties and credit are less clear or can be outright denied.  I am fully aware how cynical that viewpoint is.

[Key Largo Comics]

I saw something earlier today (New Rockstars?) that theorizes that John Walker and Battlestar have also been given super soldier serum, hence the abilty to throw the shield like Cap. Things might not be quite what they seem etc.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Key Largo Comics

[drotto]

1 hour ago, Key Largo Comics said:

I saw something earlier today (New Rockstars?) that theorizes that John Walker and Battlestar have also been given super soldier serum, hence the abilty to throw the shield like Cap. Things might not be quite what they seem etc.

I the Death of Captain storyline, it was established that Bucky was one of the few people who could wield the shield, because of his bionic arm. That would make sense here also, but then it does not make sense how Sam could in this show.

[@therealsilvermane]

2 hours ago, Key Largo Comics said:

I saw something earlier today (New Rockstars?) that theorizes that John Walker and Battlestar have also been given super soldier serum, hence the abilty to throw the shield like Cap. Things might not be quite what they seem etc.

 

36 minutes ago, drotto said:

I the Death of Captain storyline, it was established that Bucky was one of the few people who could wield the shield, because of his bionic arm. That would make sense here also, but then it does not make sense how Sam could in this show.

I think I learned from WandaVision not to read too much into these shows and try to take things at face value. If John Walker says he's not a super soldier, then he's not. In the MCU, if you train enough, you can wield the Shield, as we saw in Walker's flashback when he's training. That's what's going to allow Sam to be Captain America on the surface, along with being worthy of the mantle on the inside.

Makes sense, I guess. Being able to wield a vibranium throwing disc was never originally part of Erskine's project or training. Somebody in marketing just thought of the costume and shield so Steve could sell war bonds. Howard Stark just developed it for Steve since it was part of his look and it seemed to work for him in that first mission where he rescues the 107th. Nothing says you have to be super-powered to throw and catch the shield. Scientifically, perhaps the vibranium does most of the work.

Edited March 29, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Winter Soldier Co-Creator Has Mixed Feelings About New Marvel Show

Wow!

Maybe the creators will feel better that Bucky seems to be moving on from the Winter Soldier chapter of his life. Perhaps this show's title will be Marvel's last usage of the names Falcon and Winter Soldier. Maybe Bucky will just go by Bucky to his friends, James to associates, and White Wolf to Wakandans and enemies.

[@therealsilvermane]

6 hours ago, drotto said:

Ok here is all streaming TV shows. Green is the Boys. Red is the Mandalorian. Yellow is WandaVision. Blue is Falcon and the Winter Soldier. That is a big interest drop off from WandaVision so far for FWS, which at this point has interest far below other large "geek" properties for the year.

Falcon and Winter Soldier didn't spark the massive speculation that WandaVision did out of the gate (thus the lack of Google searching) as I think everything you need to know is in the show. It's starting out as a more personal story of Bucky and Sam. I think once we see Sam start slinging that Shield around, fans are going to start going nuts.

[drotto]

5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Falcon and Winter Soldier didn't spark the massive speculation that WandaVision did out of the gate (thus the lack of Google searching) as I think everything you need to know is in the show. It's starting out as a more personal story of Bucky and Sam. I think once we see Sam start slinging that Shield around, fans are going to start going nuts.

But if it is not sparking interest and speculation, does it show a decrease in popularity in the MCU?  Should not the reveal of a new Captain have sparked massive speculation? This show does not appear to have people talking, just looking at the numbers, and trying to be objective.  I looked at another comparison with FWS and the Snyder Cut of Justice League, and it showed the Snyder Cut was generating at least 4 times the internet chatter.  That is for an essentially dead branch of the DCEU. Can Marvel rely on people seeing this show and its other streaming offerings as essential viewing?  If they general public does not view them as essential how much does that hurt future films? It looks like a risky strategy. It also makes me wonder how many people truly viewed Endgame as the end.

 

I personally think the interest in Loki will jump, based on the general popularity of the character and the actor. This show just does not seem to be creating that much buzz. Unfortunately, since non of the streaming services post any real or meaningful viewing numbers, we have very little to go on about how successful these shows are.

[@therealsilvermane]

17 minutes ago, drotto said:

But if it is not sparking interest and speculation, does it show a decrease in popularity in the MCU?  Should not the reveal of a new Captain have sparked massive speculation? This show does not appear to have people talking, just looking at the numbers, and trying to be objective.  I looked at another comparison with FWS and the Snyder Cut of Justice League, and it showed the Snyder Cut was generating at least 4 times the internet chatter.  That is for an essentially dead branch of the DCEU. Can Marvel rely on people seeing this show and its other streaming offerings as essential viewing?  If they general public does not view them as essential how much does that hurt future films? It looks like a risky strategy. It also makes me wonder how many people truly viewed Endgame as the end.

 

I personally think the interest in Loki will jump, based on the general popularity of the character and the actor. This show just does not seem to be creating that much buzz. Unfortunately, since non of the streaming services post any real or meaningful viewing numbers, we have very little to go on about how successful these shows are.

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is the #1 watched premiere ever on Disney+, over WandaVision and both season premieres of The Mandalorian. I imagine there isn't a lot of fan media articles being written on FWS because there's been no big mystery like in WandaVision. We're all not trying to guess who's pulling the strings in Falcon and Winter Soldier because that's not the focus. We only learned about a Powerbroker late in Episode 2. But as far as other social media goes, which I participate a little, there seems to be a lot of activity on places like Facebook and Twitter.

Either way, I'm actually enjoying FWS more than WandaVision. I do find myself, however, not watching FWS episodes over and over to find clues like I did with WandaVision. It's just not that type of show. I'm sure Disney and Marvel are quite happy with the success so far of their Marvel Disney+ shows.

[WolverineX]

Elijah Richardson is now here.  Young avengers is a go.  Hold on or buy your Avengers 8's soon.  Kang the Conqueror will be here soon to  build the team.  

[Bosco685]

6 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Maybe the creators will feel better that Bucky seems to be moving on from the Winter Soldier chapter of his life. Perhaps this show's title will be Marvel's last usage of the names Falcon and Winter Soldier. Maybe Bucky will just go by Bucky to his friends, James to associates, and White Wolf to Wakandans and enemies.

That's a lot of 'MAYBE' inserts for a massive franchise that prides itself on honoring the source material and its creators. Though it makes extensive changes to such content.

Meanwhile, Winter Soldier has been used in some the bigger MCU productions. So probably Disney/Marvel Studios should take care of this cook book creative team.

[@therealsilvermane]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

That's a lot of 'MAYBE' inserts for a massive franchise that prides itself on honoring the source material and its creators. Though it makes extensive changes to such content.

Meanwhile, Winter Soldier has been used in some the bigger MCU productions. So probably Disney/Marvel Studios should take care of this cook book creative team.

Unfortunately for Mr Brubaker, and many other contributors to America's pop cultural identity, we live in a country whose main economic model is capitalism, a system that historically leaves workers in the dust and rewards the owners and/or gatekeepers of the means of production. I guess it's not morally right but that's the way of life we've all chosen for ourselves.

[theCapraAegagrus]

27 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Unfortunately for Mr Brubaker, and many other contributors to America's pop cultural identity, we live in a country whose main economic model is capitalism, a system that historically leaves workers in the dust and rewards the owners and/or gatekeepers of the means of production. I guess it's not morally right but that's the way of life we've all chosen for ourselves.

[fantastic_four]

13 hours ago, drotto said:

With Marvel, it sometimes feels like changes are made to story, not to improve it, or even make it fit into the MCU better, but to give them some distance from the original creators so royalties and credit are less clear or can be outright denied. 

What's unclear about the rights?  For the overwhelming most part Marvel has only hired work-for-hire creators, and that's been true for long over half a century.  Stan managed to get Marvel to give him a small cut of the pie that I don't think he ever actually saw during his lifetime--aside from the large yearly salary they gave him all along to I guess make him feel somewhat better about not getting the full cut he had negotiated--but most artists don't.

I get Brubaker's malaise in retrospect, but by 2005 he knew full well what he was doing by working for Marvel.

[fantastic_four]

13 hours ago, Key Largo Comics said:

I saw something earlier today (New Rockstars?) that theorizes that John Walker and Battlestar have also been given super soldier serum, hence the abilty to throw the shield like Cap. Things might not be quite what they seem etc.

When Walker got knocked off the truck and fell onto the car the first thing I thought was how is he getting up.  Any of us would be in the hospital after that.

[fantastic_four]

10 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

We're all not trying to guess who's pulling the strings in Falcon and Winter Soldier because that's not the focus.

Some of us are still bitter about having been trolled in Wandavision by Jac Schaeffer.  

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Some of us are still bitter about having been trolled in Wandavision by Jac Schaeffer.