Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

When they went to the Avengers compound, though, Secretary Ross commanded that they be arrested. I think that it has since been 'forgiven', but not until after "The Blip".

I'm not saying the MCU always keeps its facts straight.

But if a hero dies in the defense of his country (the world) you think Steve Rogers went back and never fought to clear his record during those 5 years? The remaining Avengers were so crushed by the Snap they sat their in shock even years later they were so devastated by their teammate loss.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

9 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

When Does ‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Take Place in the Marvel Timeline?

So the show is taking place 2-3 months after everyone was brought back after the Blip and 5 years, 2-3 months after Sam was snapped out of existence attempting to defeat Thanos's forces invading Wakanda.

Government is slow to take action. But not that slow over 5 years it couldn't reverse course and recognize a hero's sacrifice to protect the world.

Hahaha. Yeah, about that...

[Gatsby77]

22 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

When Does ‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ Take Place in the Marvel Timeline?

So the show is taking place 2-3 months after everyone was brought back after the Blip and 5 years, 2-3 months after Sam was snapped out of existence attempting to defeat Thanos's forces invading Wakanda.

Government is slow to take action. But not that slow over 5 years it couldn't reverse course and recognize a hero's sacrifice to protect the world.

I caught much simpler evidence that this occurred just a few months after the blip - the reason the loan officer gives for denying her loan is she has "no proof of income for the last five years." Her answer implied she had no income during that time only because she'd been blipped: "How can you have income if you don't exist?" Then Sam straight up admits he too has been gone, "like several billion other people."

Hence the injustice of it all.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Gatsby77

[theCapraAegagrus]

7 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I'm not saying the MCU always keeps its facts straight.

But if a hero dies in the defense of his country (the world) you think Steve Rogers went back and never fought to clear his record during those 5 years? The remaining Avengers were so crushed by the Snap they sat their in shock even years later they were so devastated by their teammate loss.

 

Falcon illegally operated as a vigilante when he fought Thanos. So, I doubt that anyone outside of the Secret Avengers really cared about his actions.

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Falcon illegally operated as a vigilante when he fought Thanos. So, I doubt that anyone outside of the Secret Avengers really cared about his actions.

Are you kidding? The biggest threat to the entire world in wiping out half the population and you are thinking that is going to be taken lightly concerning Sam's sacrifice?

Come on now. Think it through. The remaining Avengers and those of the 'Secret Avengers' would never allow that to happen without a fight.

[theCapraAegagrus]

5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Are you kidding? The biggest threat to the entire world in wiping out half the population and you are thinking that is going to be taken lightly concerning Sam's sacrifice?

Come on now. Think it through. The remaining Avengers and those of the 'Secret Avengers' would never allow that to happen without a fight.

He was already a criminal vigilante, so yes - all things being equal - I don't think that the UN cares about his intentions. I'm just following the line of thinking that was presented when the Accords were drafted.

I doubt that 'clearing someone's criminal record' was a priority at any time during The Decimation. Things were still in shambles.

[Bosco685]

26 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

He was already a criminal vigilante, so yes - all things being equal - I don't think that the UN cares about his intentions. I'm just following the line of thinking that was presented when the Accords were drafted.

I doubt that 'clearing someone's criminal record' was a priority at any time during The Decimation. Things were still in shambles.

It just doesn't sounds rational. But I get your line of thought.

[Bosco685]

[drotto]

The fact is if the blip happened the government would need to quickly put in place procedures to deal with those people.  Yes, government is slow, but this would be truly urgent.  I suspect that would include things like 

1. Reversing death certificates

2. Temporary loan forgiveness, and access to loans

3. Healthcare

 

If they did not do this thing would collapse fast, and Sam's family would not be the only one.  This would be an epidemic. I doubt if somebody would have it held against them that they did not exist so had no reported income. There would be mechanisms in ace for this.

 

Plus, even if Sam was not getting paid.  Living off the goodwill of others is not feasible.   Somebody was paying or providing him with his essentials. There are plenty of wealthy Avengers, and plenty of patrons that could help him out. Him only having this one avenue for money is a stretch.  Pepper could easily buy the boat and house and let his sister run the business. He has powerful and wealthy friends. 

[@therealsilvermane]

3 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

I caught much simpler evidence that this occurred just a few months after the blip - the reason the loan officer gives for denying her loan is she has "no proof of income for the last five years." Her answer implied she had no income during that time only because she'd been blipped: "How can you have income if you don't exist?" Then Sam straight up admits he too has been gone, "like several billion other people."

Hence the injustice of it all.

Wait, I understood as Sam's sister didn't get vanished by Thanos and had to keep it together for the last 5 years. I thought it was Sam who was trying to help her get the loan, but he's the one who had no proof of income. I imagine Sam's sister couldn't get a loan because she's so deep in debt. I have to go back and look at that.

[theCapraAegagrus]

3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Wait, I understood as Sam's sister didn't get vanished by Thanos and had to keep it together for the last 5 years. I thought it was Sam who was trying to help her get the loan, but he's the one who had no proof of income. I imagine Sam's sister couldn't get a loan because she's so deep in debt. I have to go back and look at that.

No, you're right. She was still around and raising her kids during The Decimation.

[drotto]

21 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Wait, I understood as Sam's sister didn't get vanished by Thanos and had to keep it together for the last 5 years. I thought it was Sam who was trying to help her get the loan, but he's the one who had no proof of income. I imagine Sam's sister couldn't get a loan because she's so deep in debt. I have to go back and look at that.

You are 100% right here.  Still does not change the fact that Sam has powerful rich friends that would help him out here.  The US government allows him to use and posses tech worth millions, but would not pull a few strings to advance him a salary or help his family get a loan? Even if his sister could not get the loan, Sam could. This storyline makes little sense.

[@therealsilvermane]

9 minutes ago, drotto said:

You are 100% right here.  Still does not change the fact that Sam has powerful rich friends that would help him out here.  The US government allows him to use and posses tech worth millions, but would not pull a few strings to advance him a salary or help his family get a loan? Even if his sister could not get the loan, Sam could. This storyline makes little sense.

Sure he could go begging to Virginia Stark for a buddy loan (I’d hope Sam has more pride than that), but in the moment at the bank, he didn’t qualify, which makes perfect sense. He tells his sister he’ll find a way (like go begging to Virginia Stark) but his sister insists on selling and wants to give up. It makes perfect sense and is good writing.

[Bosco685]

17 minutes ago, drotto said:

You are 100% right here.  Still does not change the fact that Sam has powerful rich friends that would help him out here.  The US government allows him to use and posses tech worth millions, but would not pull a few strings to advance him a salary or help his family get a loan? Even if his sister could not get the loan, Sam could. This storyline makes little sense.

Didn't even think about that.

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Sure he could go begging to Virginia Stark for a buddy loan (I’d hope Sam has more pride than that), but in the moment at the bank, he didn’t qualify, which makes perfect sense. He tells his sister he’ll find a way (like go begging to Virginia Stark) but his sister insists on selling and wants to give up. It makes perfect sense and is good writing.

Unless it was anything other than Marvel Studios.

Otherwise, it would end in a diatribe how these other studios need to spell out the facts better to mirror realworld how someone like Sam would exhaust all avenues to eliminate financial burdens for his family.

[fantastic_four]

57 minutes ago, drotto said:

The US government allows him to use and posses tech worth millions

Why are they still letting him have the wings at all given that he violated the Sokovia Accords and went to jail the last time he had them and was then broken out of the Raft by Cap?  He showed up with Cap and Nat to save Vision and Wanda in Infinity War, then got dusted, then came back, and suddenly he has a whole new set of wings in this series when as far as I recall he should still be a fugitive.  What happened?  Was there some mass off-screen pardon given to everyone who helped get rid of Thanos?

[drotto]

4 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Why are they still letting him have the wings at all given that he violated the Sokovia Accords and went to jail the last time he had them and was then broken out of the Raft by Cap?  He showed up with Cap and Nat to save Vision and Wanda in Infinity War, then got dusted, then came back, and suddenly he has a whole new set of wings in this series when as far as I recall he should still be a fugitive.  What happened?  Was there some mass off-screen pardon given to everyone who helped get rid of Thanos?

Extrapolating from the Winter Soldier storyline, I suspect that everyone involved with stopping Thanos was pardoned.  Which makes the not getting a loan plot make even less sense. Sam is obviously recognized as a hero, apparently everyone wants selfies with him.  He is going on missions for the government and basically leasing a strike team. Sure seems like all is forgiven.

 

If the government was quick enough to pardon everyone, and come to an agreement to use Sam as an agent.  Seems to me that they would be able to come to some level of legislation on how to handle people that were missing in the blip, including things like loan forgiveness, missing income etc. In fact it would be essential to society functioning. The world they are showing is far to "normal" for massive reintegration steps not to have been taken.

 

The only logic that makes any sense, and was already mentioned, is that Sam is too prideful to except any type of help.

[Bosco685]

13 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Why are they still letting him have the wings at all given that he violated the Sokovia Accords and went to jail the last time he had them and was then broken out of the Raft by Cap?  He showed up with Cap and Nat to save Vision and Wanda in Infinity War, then got dusted, then came back, and suddenly he has a whole new set of wings in this series when as far as I recall he should still be a fugitive.  What happened?  Was there some mass off-screen pardon given to everyone who helped get rid of Thanos?

Another solid question of events that occurred not only over 5 years since The Snap but then months after The Blip.

[letsgrumble]

The Blip is such an all-consuming albatross for all writers of MCU storylines moving forward.

[fantastic_four]

Someone leaked images of some action figures related to this series that are rather spoilery.  It's mostly things most of us could have guessed, but still, seeing what they look like is a bit of a spoiler, so if you don't want to see Sam or Bucky's costumes from late in the show, don't expand this spoiler.

Spoiler

Sam's costume and his inevitable acceptance of the mantle of Cap is predictable, but I wouldn't have guessed they'd go with a retro 1940s Bucky mask on Barnes.