Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service 3 3

[media_junkie]

1 minute ago, Angel of Death said:

I can understand that. He was kinda cool for the show, but I didn't find his character much more interesting than before.

I get that.  I enjoyed the Falcon and especially Bucky/Winter Soldier in the films, but honestly neither one of them really jazzed me in this show.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Anyone else disappointed that the title card at the end didn't read; 'Captain America and the White Wolf'?

[media_junkie]

5 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Anyone else disappointed that the title card at the end didn't read; 'Captain America and the White Wolf'?

Not really, I dont like the White Wolf name at all.

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, media_junkie said:

Not really, I dont like the White Wolf name at all.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I also thought that Bucky's interaction with the old man was too short-lived. It was kind of awkward. They made a big deal of it early-on, and then ignored it for most of the series, and then he quickly informs the old man and ditches. Idk. I felt like it wasn't given the time that it deserved.

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

I also thought that Bucky's interaction with the old man was too short-lived. It was kind of awkward. They made a big deal of it early-on, and then ignored it for most of the series, and then he quickly informs the old man and ditches. Idk. I felt like it wasn't given the time that it deserved.

I DID NOT like that at all as now to make himself feel better he informed the old man:

1) Your son was murdered

2) A guy pretending to be his friend did the deed

All that pain brought back up to make Bucky clear his conscience yet leaving the older guy devastated twice-over.

[Buzzetta]

36 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

The new Captain America suit is 'meh'.

I think it was a decent job considering the source material.   Without Stark around, and the Bucky connection, it makes sense that they looked toward the tailors of Wakanda and I assume the suit is designed by Suri or at least those within Suri's lab.

Out of curiosity were you looking for something shinier?  More matte?  Lose the head sock.  (Maybe lose the head sock)

The suit had to incorporate the following:

• It must have wings
• It must protect the user with the understanding the user does not have the super soldier serum 
• It must be red, white, and blue 
• It needs to evoke or honor what has come before it. 

I was always glad that they never made Steve Rogers wear the actual costume from the comics except in the war bond raising scenes as that costume kind of never works.  Perhaps they should have gone with something that was a little closer to the mostly blue costume with the star seen in CA:WS or CA:CW.  As I mentioned, I like the mechanics of how the wings react and how the wings and thruster augment and account for strength.   It made more sense.

I am sure there will be a costume upgrade when it appears again in a full length movie so that will be interesting to see what the future director and producers come up with then. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Buzzetta

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I think it was a decent job considering the source material.   Without Stark around, and the Bucky connection, it makes sense that they looked toward the tailors of Wakanda and I assume the suit is designed by Suri or at least those within Suri's lab.

Out of curiosity were you looking for something shinier?  More matte?  Lose the head sock.  (Maybe lose the head sock)

The suit had to incorporate the following:

• It must have wings
• It must protect the user with the understanding the user does not have the super soldier serum 
• It must be red, white, and blue 
• It needs to evoke or honor what has come before it. 

I was always glad that they never made Steve Rogers wear the actual costume from the comics except in the war bond raising scenes as that costume kind of never works.  Perhaps they should have gone with something that was a little closer to the mostly blue costume with the star seen in CA:WS or CA:CW.  As I mentioned, I like the mechanics of how the wings react and how the wings and thruster augment and account for strength.   It made more sense.

I am sure there will be a costume upgrade when it appears again in a full length movie so that will be interesting to see what the future director and producers come up with then. 

I like the physical design of the new costume, but not how the colors were distributed. It's not awful, and maybe it'll just take time for me to adjust from Rogers' old look, but right now I'm not feelin' it.

[Buzzetta]

10 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

I DID NOT like that at all as now to make himself feel better he informed the old man:

1) Your son was murdered

2) A guy pretending to be his friend did the deed

All that pain brought back up to make Bucky clear his conscience yet leaving the older guy devastated twice-over.

Did it though?  I felt that he was following the old guy around as seen when he passes the restaurant because of continued guilt.    I have to watch it again but perhaps he walks away knowing that he did what he had to but it was still the tough thing and there are some things that are never ever to be merely crossed off. 

Like he let the secret out but he knows that the guy hates him for it and it doesn't make anything really better but it was the right thing to do. 

[Buzzetta]

2 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

I like the physical design of the new costume, but not how the colors were distributed. It's not awful, and maybe it'll just take time for me to adjust from Rogers' old look, but right now I'm not feelin' it.

That makes sense then.  I agree with you on that angle. I have always felt that the comic book version of the Steve Rogers Captain America costume from distribution of color to chain mail was a bit hokey.  I get it that it is 'classic' but I always felt that the movie studios did a better job of giving it the appearance of a functioning upgrade.  

The costumes in the comics (spandex and lycra) have never directly translated well on screen.   It's nice for cosplay, not well suited for beating the bejeezus out of each other.

[Buzzetta]

44 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

And lo a thread cleansing has occurred!

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Buzzetta

[Bosco685]

33 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Did it though?  I felt that he was following the old guy around as seen when he passes the restaurant because of continued guilt.    I have to watch it again but perhaps he walks away knowing that he did what he had to but it was still the tough thing and there are some things that are never ever to be merely crossed off. 

Like he let the secret out but he knows that the guy hates him for it and it doesn't make anything really better but it was the right thing to do. 

Go back and watch it.

The old man had come to terms with the loss of his son, and kept the shrine area to honor his memory. Now, he has to take into consideration his son was murdered by the guy that had befriended him and brought him comfort for a period of time.

How would you feel if someone you hung out with shared they had killed someone you loved?

[Cozmo-One]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Go back and watch it.

The old man had come to terms with the loss of his son, and kept the shrine area to honor his memory. Now, he has to take into consideration his son was murdered by the guy that had befriended him and brought him comfort for a period of time.

How would you feel if someone you hung out with shared they had killed someone you loved?

I didn't feel that the old man had come to terms with the loss, at least not in the first episode.  And either the bartender or psychiatrist, don't remember which, mentioned something about the pain of not knowing (I think). I guess it depends on how Bucky framed the conversion - did he tell him he was the Winter Soldier, maybe he said why his son was targeted, etc -  but we'll probably never know.

[theCapraAegagrus]

18 minutes ago, Cozmo-One said:

...did he tell him he was the Winter Soldier, maybe he said why his son was targeted...

Um, yes. All he said is that 'he had no choice'.

The conversation was much too brief for my liking. The show made a big deal about it at the beginning, but at the end it wasn't treated like it was a big deal. Big missed opportunity there IMO.

[fantastic_four]

I'm so many years past my apathy for a new person being called Captain America that I forgot why I didn't care in the first place, but now I remember.  Throughout most of my time knowing about Cap the writers mostly tried to keep his power set unique.  They experimented on him in World War 2, the doctor who did the experiment died, nobody could replicate it, over, done, he's a 1 of 1 who is roughly 10x faster, stronger, and tougher than the average human who for whatever reason loved using a shield, and that's who Cap is.  I took that as a given for decades, but then writers slowly started eroding that, and I didn't even realize it in most cases until years after they had done it since I wasn't actively reading Cap.  They gave Cap's powers to Bucky, and then a bunch of others, and now how many Cap-equivalents are there, dozens?  Hundreds?  I've lost track.  Certainly in the MCU we're already up to dozens.

Anyway, Cap has always been this set of super-soldier powers who was largely eclipsed by superheroes who followed him with new and interesting power-sets, and the costume was just jingoistically bizarre.  When I heard Falcon "took over the mantle of Cap" back around 2014/2015 my first thought is still the core of my thought today--what?  Did he somehow get Cap's powers?  No?  Then he's not Cap.  And if he did become a super-soldier, eroding the uniqueness of Steve Rogers...ugh.  Nice story point, watering down Cap with new Caps popping up all over the place.  

So overall I'm not really a fan of this direction Cap and the serum has taken over the last decade or two.  It has nothing to do with Falcon or Sam Wilson, it's just the whole idea of pulling out the super soldier serum as a story or character device and the idea of Cap as a title as opposed to a unique superhero.  Cap had already been watered down by Stan's creations from the 1960s, mass-producing the super soldier serum did it far more, and relegating Cap to just a title tied a bow on my disdain for the direction the character has gone in.

Edited April 26, 2021 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

48 minutes ago, Cozmo-One said:

I didn't feel that the old man had come to terms with the loss, at least not in the first episode.  And either the bartender or psychiatrist, don't remember which, mentioned something about the pain of not knowing (I think). I guess it depends on how Bucky framed the conversion - did he tell him he was the Winter Soldier, maybe he said why his son was targeted, etc -  but we'll probably never know.

He tells the old man he did the killing and that he had no choice.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

FF's thoughts about different Caps is exactly why I despised the part of Civil War when Bucky says, "I'm not the only Winter Soldier". It alienated what made The Winter Soldier movie special.

[D84]

51 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

FF's thoughts about different Caps is exactly why I despised the part of Civil War when Bucky says, "I'm not the only Winter Soldier". It alienated what made The Winter Soldier movie special.

But how else can they milk the franchise ad nauseam?

[theCapraAegagrus]

5 minutes ago, D84 said:

But how else can they milk the franchise ad nauseam?

Falcon: Is an individual character with unique abilities.

*steals dead guy's mantle*

[jcjames]

2 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

I'm so many years past my apathy for a new person being called Captain America that I forgot why I didn't care in the first place, but now I remember.  Throughout most of my time knowing about Cap the writers mostly tried to keep his power set unique.  They experimented on him in World War 2, the doctor who did the experiment died, nobody could replicate it, over, done, he's a 1 of 1 who is roughly 10x faster, stronger, and tougher than the average human who for whatever reason loved using a shield, and that's who Cap is.  I took that as a given for decades, but then writers slowly started eroding that, and I didn't even realize it in most cases until years after they had done it since I wasn't actively reading Cap.  They gave Cap's powers to Bucky, and then a bunch of others, and now how many Cap-equivalents are there, dozens?  Hundreds?  I've lost track.  Certainly in the MCU we're already up to dozens.

Anyway, Cap has always been this set of super-soldier powers who was largely eclipsed by superheroes who followed him with new and interesting power-sets, and the costume was just jingoistically bizarre.  When I heard Falcon "took over the mantle of Cap" back around 2014/2015 my first thought is still the core of my thought today--what?  Did he somehow get Cap's powers?  No?  Then he's not Cap.  And if he did become a super-soldier, eroding the uniqueness of Steve Rogers...ugh.  Nice story point, watering down Cap with new Caps popping up all over the place.  

So overall I'm not really a fan of this direction Cap and the serum has taken over the last decade or two.  It has nothing to do with Falcon or Sam Wilson, it's just the whole idea of pulling out the super soldier serum as a story or character device and the idea of Cap as a title as opposed to a unique superhero.  Cap had already been watered down by Stan's creations from the 1960s, mass-producing the super soldier serum did it far more, and relegating Cap to just a title tied a bow on my disdain for the direction the character has gone in.

Agreed. Same for many others, how many "spider-people" are there in the comics now? How many "Hulks"? How many "Iron-people" now? How many "Thors"? How many "Captain Marvels" (oh shoot, I said that name, sorry)? Even DC got into it with all the Bats and Robins, etc. It's so much easier to put the same costume/powers or name onto a new person than to create a new character.