theCapraAegagrus Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, drotto said: So I know Google Trends is not scientific either, but it is a decent snapshot of what people are searching for on the internet. The green line is the Boys, the red line is the Mandalorian, the blue line is WandaVision, the yellow line is Falcon and Winter Soldier, and the purple line is Eternals. So base on this Mandalorian showed the most activity, followed by Wanda, and the Boys comes in third (granted short term peak, while FaWS had more overall). The Eternals teaser generated basically nothing. I tried to do a graph using Endgame and the resulting scale made everything else basically unreadable. I would say that WV nearing The Mandalorian numbers is insulting, but they were going for 'mystery'-discussion with that show, even if it led basically nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) A little more trends. Here Justice League is green, Black Widow is red, Shang-Chi is yellow, and Eternals is blue, this is a 90 day trend. Now I will give Eternals some credit here, as it is the best of the Marvel offerings, but how does a recut of a 4 year old movie, released on streaming generate much more buzz than fresh Marvel films. If you want some non scientific basis where my concerns for the MCU are coming from, I think this shows it. Edited June 2, 2021 by drotto Larryw7 and D84 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muno42 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I think it is realistic that any MCU movie (other than Spidey) will be see a large drop off compared to Endgame. Many casual fans may be slow to get back onboard a Marvel "commitment". D84 and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muno42 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, drotto said: A little more if you trends. Here Justice League is green, Black Widow is red, Shang-Chi is yellow, and Eternals is blue. Now Eternals, this is a 90 day trend. Now I will give Eternals some credit here, as it is the best of the Marvel offerings, but how does a recut of a 4 year old movie, released on streaming generate much more buzz than fresh Marvel films. If you want some non scientific basis where my concerns for the MCU are coming from, I think this shows it. Considering the fan outcry for the Snyder Cut, the dramatic spike for JLA is understandable. Black Widow suffers from a year of nothing, which is too bad. I am actually surprised how well Eternals shows, considering the trailer. Larryw7 and theCapraAegagrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) For giggles this is a 5 year trend including Endgame. If it even needs to be said, Endgame is green. Trust me Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals are graphed here. Edited June 2, 2021 by drotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, drotto said: ...how does a recut of a 4 year old movie, released on streaming generate much more buzz than fresh Marvel films... Honestly, I think that this should be a rhetorical question. ZSJL has been in-demand for 4 years, and I wouldn't call it a "re-cut". Almost nobody has been demanding The Eternals movie. D84, Larryw7 and Muno42 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muno42 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I doubt even a perfect FF reboot X-Men intro to the MCU can reach the fever pitch of Endgame. D84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 11 hours ago, drotto said: My general concern for the MCU remains how many people between Endgame and the pandemic have just moved past the MCU. This teaser is not going to bring them back. What's your evidence for the number of people that have moved past the MCU after Endgame? There are no numbers to show that. In fact, numbers show the opposite of that. Spiderman Far From Home (released after Endgame) was the first Spiderman movie to break a billion dollars. WandaVision and Falcon Winter Soldier each were the #1 streaming shows when they were live. WandaVision itself broke the internet several times with all the rampant fan speculation around that show. Yes, your above graph shows less google searches for FWS than WandaVision but all that says to me is there was less fan speculation around the show than WV. FWS wasn't that kind of show. Besides the Power Broker mystery, it gave you everything you needed in the story. I had a conversation with a fairly new neighbor, a middle aged lady who knows nothing about comic books, the other day who was on her way to Disney with her family. We started talking about the rides and she was "too bad" about the fact that the Guardians of the Galaxy roller coaster wasn't finished yet and she gushed about how much she loved Marvel (as in the MCU). It reminded me how much Marvel Studios has transcended the usual action movie comic book crowd male audience and has really captured the imaginations of many different audiences. Just because you've moved past the MCU (or were never there to begin with) doesn't mean everyone else has. theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said: What's your evidence for the number of people that have moved past the MCU after Endgame? There are no numbers to show that. In fact, numbers show the opposite of that. Where are they? Larryw7 and D84 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 36 minutes ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said: ...This is the end of the MCU!!! ***If I say it often enough eventually I'm going to be right Not saying this is the end of the MCU, what I am saying is they will never reach the level of Endgame again. I think the norm for MCU films will be in the $500 to $750 million range going forward (to be honest this is where most of the non event MCU films were already). Still numbers every other movie company would kill for, but way off their peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: I would say that WV nearing The Mandalorian numbers is insulting, but they were going for 'mystery'-discussion with that show, even if it led basically nowhere. WandaVision wasn't meant to appeal to your usual comic book fans. So I'll take the data over the individual opinions of geeks on a comic book message board. And it was (clearly) successful, given that it trended on Twitter every Friday it was released - sometimes Saturdays as well. But since we're trading anecdotes, most of the people I know who watched (and loved it) were: a) women; and b) non-comic book fans. Muno42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, theCapraAegagrus said: Where are they? It is the same "hard" numbers the streaming services give us for real viewership. theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said: WandaVision wasn't meant to appeal to your usual comic book fans. So I'll take the data over the individual opinions of geeks on a comic book message board. And it was (clearly) successful, given that it trended on Twitter every Friday it was released - sometimes Saturdays as well. But since we're trading anecdotes, most of the people I know who watched (and loved it) were: a) women; and b) non-comic book fans. It was "successful" in drawing speculation while it aired, sure. Most TV shows do. It wasn't successful in maintaining interest after the story led nowhere, though. D84 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said: What's your evidence for the number of people that have moved past the MCU after Endgame? There are no numbers to show that. In fact, numbers show the opposite of that. Spiderman Far From Home (released after Endgame) was the first Spiderman movie to break a billion dollars. WandaVision and Falcon Winter Soldier each were the #1 streaming shows when they were live. WandaVision itself broke the internet several times with all the rampant fan speculation around that show. Yes, your above graph shows less google searches for FWS than WandaVision but all that says to me is there was less fan speculation around the show than WV. FWS wasn't that kind of show. Besides the Power Broker mystery, it gave you everything you needed in the story. I had a conversation with a fairly new neighbor, a middle aged lady who knows nothing about comic books, the other day who was on her way to Disney with her family. We started talking about the rides and she was "too bad" about the fact that the Guardians of the Galaxy roller coaster wasn't finished yet and she gushed about how much she loved Marvel (as in the MCU). It reminded me how much Marvel Studios has transcended the usual action movie comic book crowd male audience and has really captured the imaginations of many different audiences. Just because you've moved past the MCU (or were never there to begin with) doesn't mean everyone else has. It is not hard evidence, just like you can not give me hard viewing numbers for how many people really watch any streaming show. But we can use internet trends and YouTube views as a rough measure of interest compared to past shows and movies. Those numbers seem to show interest has dropped off. Again the MCU is not dead, by any stretch, but it will be extremely difficult to reach Endgame levels. Muno42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, drotto said: Not saying this is the end of the MCU, what I am saying is they will never reach the level of Endgame again. I think the norm for MCU films will be in the $500 to $750 million range going forward (to be honest this is where most of the non event MCU films were already). Still numbers every other movie company would kill for, but way off their peak. I'll take that bet. Even if 2021 (w/ Black Widow / Shang-Chi and The Eternals) turns out to be a "rebuilding year" for the MCU - I wouldn't bet against regular $1 bn.+ box offices for films (including Thor 4, Spider-Man 3, & Dr. Strange 3). The "only Avengers matters" theory ignores the $1b+ grosses of the following films: Captain Marvel: $1.1 bn. Spider-Man: Far From Home: $1.1 bn. Iron Man 3: $1.2 bn. Black Panther: $1.35 bn. And again - the argument that "Captain Marvel only made $1 bn.+ because of its relevance to Endgame" ignores that Ant Man & The Wasp was also in-between and critical to Endgame (with the introduction of the time travel tech) yet made less than $625 million worldwide. Captain Marvel was an unmitigated success on its own terms, not just because of the character hype from Infinity War/Endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, drotto said: Again the MCU is not dead, by any stretch, but it will be extremely difficult impossible to reach Endgame levels. FTFY. Endgame was a once-in-a-lifetime event. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: It was "successful" in drawing speculation while it aired, sure. Most TV shows do. It wasn't successful in maintaining interest after the story led nowhere, though. The story didn't lead "nowhere" just because it wasn't Mephisto, etc. Aside from the fact that the show announced in Ep. 7 that it was Agatha all along, the whole point was Wanda (and her fractured psyche) was the true villain. That was the appropriate choice - and similar in theme to those explored in Jessica Jones season 1. Edited June 2, 2021 by Gatsby77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: The story didn't lead "nowhere" because it wasn't Mephisto, etc. Aside from the fact that the show announced in Ep. 7 that it was Agatha all along, the whole point was Wanda (and her fractured psyche) was the true villain. That was the appropriate choice - and similar in theme to those explored in Jessica Jones season 1. Where did it go, then? Wanda tortured a town and then flew away. That's not much happening for a 9-episode series IMO. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyTheAbyss Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, drotto said: Not saying this is the end of the MCU, what I am saying is they will never reach the level of Endgame again. I think the norm for MCU films will be in the $500 to $750 million range going forward (to be honest this is where most of the non event MCU films were already). Still numbers every other movie company would kill for, but way off their peak. I understand. Also saying it will never reach the level of Endgame is a very safe guess. Surpassing the highest (or 2nd highest) movie of all time would be crazy (I'm not saying impossible but highly unlikely). But do they need to? More movies, more streaming services, more merch,...other streams of revenue to grow profit. My view on the upcoming movies are this. We just got out of one of the @#$% years ever. I'm just looking to go out to the movies, overpaying for some popcorn, and shutting down my brain for a few hours. That's the extent of it. ***Plus the MCU gets the benefit of the doubt. They made comics cool to the general public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: The story didn't lead "nowhere" because it wasn't Mephisto, etc. Aside from the fact that the show announced in Ep. 7 that it was Agatha all along, the whole point was Wanda (and her fractured psyche) was the true villain. That was the appropriate choice - and similar in theme to those explored in Jessica Jones season 1. I agree that peak interest is the most realistic number to measure how a show did. It is the rare show that maintains interest over time. When you are dealing with a shared universe the peak interest between different installments also becomes interesting. So with the MCU is the drop off from Wanda to FaWS evident of where the MCU going? Will Loki see a bump, because it is Tom Hiddleston (I think it will)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
