@therealsilvermane Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 2:18 PM, theCapraAegagrus said: Romance and/or camaraderie is story, yet not tension. So the "story = tension" line doesn't pass the smell test. Story is not 1-dimensional. Two people falling in love is absolutely tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) On 1/21/2022 at 5:40 AM, @therealsilvermane said: . As for actual screenplay books I own, I do have Syd Field's Screenplay and Screenwriter's Workshop. The Screenwriter's Bible. Story by Robert McKee. Method Writing by Jack Grapes. A friend lent me his copy of Save the Cat! by Blake Snyder which I haven't read yet. My issue with a lot of the books similar to Syd Field's books is they give you the Hollywood formula for screenwriting, whereas my interest for a long time has been more independent and international cinema, which doesn't necessarily follow the Hollywood formula. every one of those books theme is explained as a sentence describing the message or moral of the film. In none of them is it explained as one word like 'fear'. didnt you read them? Edited January 21, 2022 by kav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 11:25 AM, @therealsilvermane said: Two people falling in love is absolutely tension. nope. two people falling in love with obstacles to their love and conflict is tension. falling in love alone-nope. theCapraAegagrus and Muno42 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 2:29 PM, kav said: every one of those books theme is explained as a sentence describing the message or moral of the film. In none of them is it explained as one word like 'fear'. didnt you read them? So you weren't actually curious about what books I like, you're just determined to try to prove me wrong about everything. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 11:34 AM, @therealsilvermane said: So you weren't actually curious about what books I like, you're just determined to try to prove me wrong about everything. Got it. I was curious if you had actually read them and retained anything with your claim to knowing what a movie's theme was and me being wrong about it. which is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodey Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 2:30 PM, kav said: nope. two people falling in love with obstacles to their love and conflict is tension. falling in love alone-nope. I have to agree. That's why love triangles were created. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 11:58 AM, Rodey said: I have to agree. That's why love triangles were created. two people just falling in love and having picnics and cuddling and stuff does not equal tension. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) On 1/21/2022 at 2:59 PM, kav said: two people just falling in love and having picnics and cuddling and stuff does not equal tension. Not even close. Again, I didn't say "two people having a picnic and cuddling". I said two people falling in love is tension, because the "falling" means they start from a place of no love and the story is that they come to a place of love, or not, in their attempt. That story can be as high tension and full of obstacles as a love triangle with guns or it can be as simple as a young man bringing a flower to a girl in hopes of wooing her. Edited January 21, 2022 by @therealsilvermane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 2:36 PM, kav said: I was curious if you had actually read them and retained anything with your claim to knowing what a movie's theme was and me being wrong about it. which is fair. I'm not doubting you've read scores of screenplay books. Theme for a writer of a screenplay can be different from theme as seen by a poet or a film director, especially if that director is making a more "artistic" film. Yes, the theme of a movie like Captain America First Avenger is better summed up like a person's worth is the size of their heart, not the size of their biceps, or something along those lines. But for films like the Dark Knight Trilogy by Christopher Nolan who makes films more like an auteur, or film artist, the filmmaker himself has stated that for him, the theme of each film is an exploration of fear in BB, chaos in DK, and consequences in DKR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 12:42 PM, @therealsilvermane said: Again, I didn't say "two people having a picnic and cuddling". I said two people falling in love is tension, because the "falling" means they start from a place of no love and the story is that they come to a place of love, or not, in their attempt. That story can be as high tension and full of obstacles as a love triangle with guns or it can be as simple as a young man bringing a flower to a girl in hopes of wooing her. "Two people falling in love" is not tension. "Two people falling in love with a triangle and guns" is tension. "Fear" is not a theme. "A man using his fear and turning it into his strength" is a theme. You are simplifying things to the point where they are not true. theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 12:53 PM, @therealsilvermane said: I'm not doubting you've read scores of screenplay books. Theme for a writer of a screenplay can be different from theme as seen by a poet or a film director, especially if that director is making a more "artistic" film. Yes, the theme of a movie like Captain America First Avenger is better summed up like a person's worth is the size of their heart, not the size of their biceps, or something along those lines. But for films like the Dark Knight Trilogy by Christopher Nolan who makes films more like an auteur, or film artist, the filmmaker himself has stated that for him, the theme of each film is an exploration of fear in BB, chaos in DK, and consequences in DKR. If christopher nolan does not know what a movie theme is that would explain a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 3:54 PM, kav said: If christopher nolan does not know what a movie theme is that would explain a lot. Insomnia The Prestige Memento Inception Interstellar Dunkirk The Dark Knight I really wish this fellow's repertoire would expand, as he just seems to focus on so many solid stories. Can't he just make a film about a bunch of super-powered beings complaining about their history? Larryw7, onlyweaknesskryptonite and theCapraAegagrus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 1:30 PM, Bosco685 said: Insomnia The Prestige Memento Inception Interstellar Dunkirk The Dark Knight I really wish this fellow's repertoire would expand, as he just seems to focus on so many solid stories. Can't he just make a film about a bunch of super-powered beings complaining about their history? his movies tend to be disjointed-as if he doesnt really have a theme in mind. tenet is the best example of this. In fact the sound quality is so bad you have to turn on captions to understand what people are saying. Nolan stated that he did this on purpose. Bosco685 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted January 21, 2022 Author Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 4:37 PM, kav said: his movies tend to be disjointed-as if he doesnt really have a theme in mind. tenet is the best example of this. In fact the sound quality is so bad you have to turn on captions to understand what people are saying. Nolan stated that he did this on purpose. always easier after the fact to note "Why of course I meant to do that!" kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) On 1/21/2022 at 1:53 PM, Bosco685 said: always easier after the fact to note "Why of course I meant to do that!" yup. And I mean whats the theme of memento? that people with no memory want to purposely forget stuff? If Nolan walked into pitch meeting stating batman begins was gonna be abt fear they must have looked at him like he was goofy. Plenty of movies abt 'fear'-halloween, halloween 2, halloween 3, halloween 4, scream, scream 2, scream 3, scream 4. Pretty much every horror movie. "Ya gotta give us more than that dude". Edited January 21, 2022 by kav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 4:37 PM, kav said: his movies tend to be disjointed-as if he doesnt really have a theme in mind. tenet is the best example of this. In fact the sound quality is so bad you have to turn on captions to understand what people are saying. Nolan stated that he did this on purpose. To be fair, Tenet also had *even more* exposition than Eternals. They were both garbage films but I actually enjoyed Eternals more. And that says something. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 1:57 PM, Gatsby77 said: To be fair, Tenet also had *even more* exposition than Eternals. They were both garbage films but I actually enjoyed Eternals more. And that says something. Not a Nolan fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 And batman begins wasnt about fear. It was about a guy who becomes a vigilante because he watched his parents get murdered. Fear of bats was just an explanation for why he chose 'batman'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 4:59 PM, kav said: Not a Nolan fan. I am. I think he's one of the top 5 directors working today - and he's crafted at least four stone-cold masterpieces. But I'll admit Insomnia was merely average - and Tenet was absolute mess. theCapraAegagrus, Larryw7 and Randall Dowling 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/21/2022 at 2:42 PM, Gatsby77 said: I am. I think he's one of the top 5 directors working today - and he's crafted at least four stone-cold masterpieces. But I'll admit Insomnia was merely average - and Tenet was absolute mess. I can see how he would appeal to many but just not my cup of tea. Dont like a single one of his films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
