Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[fantastic_four]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

Ant-Man had cut a deal for violating the Sokovia accords.  Didn't some other heroes also cut that deal?  I forget who else was in that same situation.

I went back and watched the Raft scene from Civil War again where Tony went there to visit Ross and saw his teammates in cells.  Heroes in the Raft for violating the Sokovia accords include Wanda, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, and Falcon.  I believe it's Ant-Man and Falcon who cut the deals.  But these aren't witnesses, these are criminals who cut deals, so it's unlikely any of those four are who he was looking for in Westview.  I can't think of anyone we've seen in prior films who would qualify simply as a witness, but if anyone else can, please share.  Until then I'm going to assume this is a new character.

Side note on the Raft scene that relates to Wandavision--they were able to keep her imprisoned because she has to use her hands to use her powers, so they had her in a straightjacket in the cell.  No use of hands, no powers--unless she's learned new ways to use them since then.

I then re-watched the Wandavision scene where we first see Woo and Monica meeting, and I'm confused as hell now.  He says he's looking for a witness he has set up in Westview.  The cops there with him say Westview doesn't exist, but the town of Eastview does exist.  Woo also says that he contacted his witness' friends, family, and known acquaintances, and all of them said that his witness doesn't exist.

WTF?  What's real and what's manipulated--Westview, Eastview, Woo's witness, Woo himself for setting up a witness who may or may not exist in a town that may or may not exist, or that witness' close ties?  So many permutations there for what's possible my brain is bending.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I'm going to play with my Sonny Burch theory a moment. If Agent Woo's escapee from Witness Protection is Burch, then Burch must have a strong motivation to escape and travel cross country to the opposite coast.  What if Sonny Burch's mysterious billionaire benefactor from Ant-Man and the Wasp is tied to the craziness in Westview? And if so, who would be such a compelling powerful figure that would motivate Burch to escape and travel so far for? My guess is Mephisto. Just another theory.

I remember Wasp kicking his butt in a restaurant and almost nothing else about this guy played by Walter Goggins.  Would he be a witness or a criminal?  I remember him committing crimes in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but I don't remember much else, such as whether or not cops ever knew about those crimes.  If he's a witness, whose crimes is he a witness against?

[theCapraAegagrus]

28 minutes ago, valiantman said:

That's why I mentioned CSI... another favorite show for old people... it's clearly sci-fi.  Enhancing grainy video, getting DNA results in 30 minutes... sci-fi. 

I'm not sure that "sci-fi" is the right term, but you present some sort of argument...

[theCapraAegagrus]

6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I went back and watched the Raft scene from Civil War again where Tony went there to visit Ross and saw his teammates in cells.  Heroes in the Raft for violating the Sokovia accords include Wanda, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, and Falcon.  I believe it's Ant-Man and Falcon who cut the deals.  But these aren't witnesses, these are criminals who cut deals, so it's unlikely any of those four are who he was looking for in Westview.  I can't think of anyone we've seen in prior films who would qualify simply as a witness, but if anyone else can, please share.  Until then I'm going to assume this is a new character.

Side note on the Raft scene that relates to Wandavision--they were able to keep her imprisoned because she has to use her hands to use her powers, so they had her in a straightjacket in the cell.  No use of hands, no powers--unless she's learned new ways to use them since then.

I then re-watched the Wandavision scene where we first see Woo and Monica meeting, and I'm confused as hell now.  He says he's looking for a witness he has set up in Westview.  The cops there with him say Westview doesn't exist, but the town of Eastview does exist.  Woo also says that he contacted his witness' friends, family, and known acquaintances, and all of them said that his witness doesn't exist.

WTF?  What's real and what's manipulated--Westview, Eastview, Woo's witness, Woo himself for setting up a witness who may or may not exist in a town that may or may not exist, or that witness' close ties?  So many permutations there for what's possible my brain is bending.  

Lang and Barton cut deals. That's why they had ankle bracelets on in Ant-Man and the Wasp & Endgame. Falcon and Wanda went on the run with Rogers, and are/were fugitives (Secret Avengers).

[@therealsilvermane]

4 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

I remember Wasp kicking his butt in a restaurant and almost nothing else about this guy played by Walter Goggins.  Would he be a witness or a criminal?  I remember him committing crimes in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but I don't remember much else, such as whether or not cops ever knew about those crimes.  If he's a witness, whose crimes is he a witness against?

Sonny Burch wanted to acquire Pym Tech from Hope Van Dyne for his benefactor(s) and was ready to offer one billion dollars. The entire film has Burch and his goons chasing Scott/the Pyms and trying to steal the tech/miniature lab from them. He even says he has a friend in the FBI who tells him things. The FBI contact is revealed to be an agent on Woo's team so there are a few dots there that slightly connect. Burch was arrested by the FBI at the end of the movie, and it's possible he cut a deal to be a witness to bigger "underworld" dealings the FBI might be investigating, such as Burch's billionaire benefactor. Early fan speculation is that the benefactor was Norman Osborne, but what if it's actually Mephisto?

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[bentbryan]

4 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Or we can all just admit that Elizabeth Olsen kind of spoiled Dr Strange showing up in the last episode?

Yes. And I agree with your assessment about any X-men related characters showing up. Way too soon and very much up-in-the-air about casting choices considering how far down the road X-men films in the MCU are.  Kind of a left field guess but what about someone from Marvel First Family? Doom? 

[Bird]

I know we all expect a big bad villain to show up but it is getting late in the game to introduce a new character. At least they had some "devil" comments, so I can see Mephisto but they better start dropping more clues soon. That is why Ultron occurred to me (unlikely I agree) but at least he got a call-out, as did Quicksilver of sorts. So they could come out. That leads to Magneto, slim but sure, okay it kinda fits. But Charles, or someone else completely new to the scene? I don't see that. I would expect Brie Larson to show up to check on Monica Rambeau more than Prof X or even Magneto. People with connections to the characters onscreen. Or, again, they better get dropping some more obvious clues to a big bad very soon. I don't want it all going to hell and then in the last episode (or cliffhanger for ep 7)  Mephisto is revealed and then Dr Strange shows up and says "not on my watch" or whatever. That I do not want but since the whole show may be a macguffin, why not? macguffin meets deus ex machina and off we go to Doc 2!

 

[fantastic_four]

11 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

Way too soon and very much up-in-the-air about casting choices considering how far down the road X-men films in the MCU are.

So we assume.  Which would make the idea that they HAVE casted their Magneto or Xavier already a real jaw-dropper if they were to show up in this series before they even announced the casting.  

[fantastic_four]

3 minutes ago, Bird said:

I don't want it all going to hell and then in the last episode (or cliffhanger for ep 7)  Mephisto is revealed and then Dr Strange shows up and says "not on my watch" or whatever. That I do not want but since the whole show may be a macguffin, why not? macguffin meets deus ex machina and off we go to Doc 2!

Your hypothetical Doctor Strange confrontation with Mephisto and entrance line sounds AWESOME!    Why don't you want that?

[@therealsilvermane]

12 minutes ago, bentbryan said:

Yes. And I agree with your assessment about any X-men related characters showing up. Way too soon and very much up-in-the-air about casting choices considering how far down the road X-men films in the MCU are.  Kind of a left field guess but what about someone from Marvel First Family? Doom? 

I think we have to remember this is still Wanda and Vision's show. You can't have too many things upstaging our star heroes. Adult size Monica Rambeau I believe is this series' big new character intro. Introducing Professor X or Reed Richards would basically steal all Wanda and Vision's thunder. But I still think a big brain has to show up to help our heroes with this technological supernatural mess, and I think that big brain has to be Dr. Strange. Strange is great at co-guest appearances, Ragnarok and Infinity War, and wouldn't necessarily upstage Wanda or Vision. Plus, I think Reed Richards or Doom are just too big name to get introduced on Disney+. I'm sure they're being saved for a theatrical MCU debut. I think it's speculated that the Fantastic Four might get introduced in Ant Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. There's a comic book connection as the Quantum Realm made its comic book intro in a Fantastic Four comic book with help from Ant-Man.

[Bird]

12 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Your hypothetical Doctor Strange confrontation with Mephisto and entrance line sounds AWESOME!    Why don't you want that?

there are rules to storytellnig...I don't want something out of left field. If Strange is monitoring it, show us already. We are in the late 2nd act, or at least traditionally, show the gun use the gun type rules apply. we need some internal logic to the show so I hope things don't come from nowhere...they should come from this story, not some other story.

[bentbryan]

14 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I think we have to remember this is still Wanda and Vision's show. You can't have too many things upstaging our star heroes. Adult size Monica Rambeau I believe is this series' big new character intro. Introducing Professor X or Reed Richards would basically steal all Wanda and Vision's thunder. But I still think a big brain has to show up to help our heroes with this technological supernatural mess, and I think that big brain has to be Dr. Strange. Strange is great at co-guest appearances, Ragnarok and Infinity War, and wouldn't necessarily upstage Wanda or Vision. Plus, I think Reed Richards or Doom are just too big name to get introduced on Disney+. I'm sure they're being saved for a theatrical MCU debut. I think it's speculated that the Fantastic Four might get introduced in Ant Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. There's a comic book connection as the Quantum Realm made its comic book intro in a Fantastic Four comic book with help from Ant-Man.

Good points. I don’t think having Strange appear is that big of deal so he wouldn’t be much, if any, of an upstage. 
 

We will all know soon enough but it is fun to speculate. 

[fantastic_four]

10 minutes ago, Bird said:

there are rules to storytellnig...I don't want something out of left field. If Strange is monitoring it, show us already. We are in the late 2nd act, or at least traditionally, show the gun use the gun type rules apply. we need some internal logic to the show so I hope things don't come from nowhere...they should come from this story, not some other story.

The rules you're alluding to apply to standalone fiction, but do they apply to serial fiction with a universe as large as the ones Marvel and DC have created?  There's plenty of precedent to large, ongoing universes in the history of literature, and I don't see why having Nancy Drew show up at the end of a novel to save the Hardy Boys is below board.  The scene from Mandalorian Olsen was referring to where Luke shows up at the end is exactly what you're referring to, and that was by FAR the finest moment in Star Wars cinema in at LEAST four years, and I'm sure plenty of fans think it's the best moment in almost 40 years.

[fantastic_four]

11 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

The scene from Mandalorian Olsen was referring to where Luke shows up at the end is exactly what you're referring to, and that was by FAR the finest moment in Star Wars cinema in at LEAST four years, and I'm sure plenty of fans think it's the best moment in almost 40 years.

Well...that one didn't completely come out of left field.  They set it up in episode 6 of 8 by having Grogu send some kind of Jedi call signal out into the universe, and Luke responded two episodes later.  So it wasn't totally out of left field, but it was set up relatively late in the story.  We've still got five episodes for the mystery reveal, or if setting it up at least two episodes in advance is best, we've got three more to fit a teaser in that gets filled towards the end.

The potential existence of a big bad has already been implied multiple times in numerous ways, so having a co-creator of Westview show up isn't out of left field.  Not sure what the current count is of dropped hints, but I bet it's well over a dozen.  There's just no way Wanda is editing that Wandavision broadcast on the fly like we saw in episode 4; someone else is doing that.

[davidpg]

On 2/2/2021 at 2:27 PM, davidpg said:

I figure there'll be an injection of the High Evolutionary and Mastermind into this before it's wrapped up.  Wanda is responsible, though helped/nudged along by those to for a reason we don't know yet.  Maybe intertwined with how Wonder Man will be created.  Maybe the stoneless Vision will become Wonder Man by the time the show is done?

I'll quote myself here.  The more I read the more I believe these things could really happen.

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, davidpg said:

On 2/2/2021 at 2:27 PM, davidpg said:

I figure there'll be an injection of the High Evolutionary and Mastermind into this before it's wrapped up.  Wanda is responsible, though helped/nudged along by those to for a reason we don't know yet.  Maybe intertwined with how Wonder Man will be created.  Maybe the stoneless Vision will become Wonder Man by the time the show is done?

I'll quote myself here.  The more I read the more I believe these things could really happen.

Bosco posted similar ideas earlier about High Evolutionary, including the idea that he's already in the show as Herb.  IMDB only shows Herb in two episodes, so if that's true we won't see him again.  But he could show up as CGI or someone in a suit if he pops up again in full High Evolutionary garb.

Sometimes IMDB doesn't know how many episodes characters are in, but for Wandavision it appears that they do.  They show Darcy and Woo in 6 total episodes, but we've only seen them so far in the one.

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Bosco posted similar ideas earlier about High Evolutionary, including the idea that he's already in the show as Herb.  IMDB only shows Herb in two episodes, so if that's true we won't see him again.  But he could show up as CGI or someone in a suit if he pops up again in full High Evolutionary garb.

Sometimes IMDB doesn't know how many episodes characters are in, but for Wandavision it appears that they do.  They show Darcy and Woo in 6 total episodes, but we've only seen them so far in the one.

Time will tell. That article was very well laid out how Herbert Edgar Wyndham (High Evolutionary) could actually be Herb in disguise.

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Time will tell. That article was very well laid out how Herbert Edgar Wyndham (High Evolutionary) could actually be Herb in disguise.

They had a driver's license for Herb, didn't they?  That may end up being an easter egg in the name.  Or he replaced/offed the real guy as you implied.

[bpc3qh]

I have a theory. In the latest trailer we see Wanda unleash some magic, turning black and white old cars into modern, color cars. I think the trailer is reversing things, and we are seeing the initial, 1950sing of things.

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

They had a driver's license for Herb, didn't they?  That may end up being an easter egg in the name.  Or he replaced/offed the real guy as you implied.

They do have a drivers license for Herb. But it could be like was noted - he is dead and the High Evolutionary took over his identity.

Fun whatever they do here. As now there are so many cool possibilities.