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Disney+'s WandaVision (2020)
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Started by Bosco685,

3,184 posts in this topic

fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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12 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

After this morning's episode, my final answer to the mystery I posted a day or two ago still stands with the adjustment that Ralph is indeed Mephisto and Agnes has been working for him the entire time, including recording the TV show so Mr. M can watch it on the other side.

My understanding of Mephisto is that he can cross into our dimension whenever he wants, he just loses most of his powers in our dimension.  I hadn't considered him not actually being in Westview...why wouldn't he be?

Mephisto's entire goal is synonymous with Satan's--to collect souls.  I really have no strong understanding for why he's broadcasting Wandavision, but my guess to date has been to draw more people into Westview so he has more potential souls to harvest.  But that's just an educated guess with little to substantiate it...I just had no better guess, nor have I heard anyone else posit a better one so far.  My main issue with your hypothesis here is that in the comics, Agatha Harkness isn't just a good guy, she's one of the best.  And she has absolutely consistently been a mother figure to Wanda, guiding her in the use of her powers, helping her with her twins, and the list goes on.  So if Agnes is producing Wandavision--including those commercials that taunt Wanda in insanely personal ways--they've flipped her so hard that it's difficult to absorb.  EVERYTHING about Wandavision feels evil, twisted, and sadistic, and that spells Mephisto as the producer/director, not Agatha Harkness.

I'm also having trouble pinning down whose souls he's after.  The twins?  Wanda?  Agatha?  Westview citizens?  All of the above?  I don't think I can adequately deduce why Mephisto is broadcasting the show without knowing what's in it for him with the whole endeavor.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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5 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

My understanding of Mephisto is that he can cross into our dimension whenever he wants, he just loses most of his powers in our dimension.  I hadn't considered him not actually being in Westview...why wouldn't he be?

Mephisto's entire goal is synonymous with Satan's--to collect souls.  I really have no strong understanding for why he's broadcasting Wandavision, but my guess to date has been to draw more people into Westview so he has more potential souls to harvest.  But that's just an educated guess with little to substantiate it...I just had no better guess, nor have I heard anyone else posit a better one so far.  My main issue with your hypothesis here is that in the comics, Agatha Harkness isn't just a good guy, she's one of the best.  And she has absolutely consistently been a mother figure to Wanda, guiding her in the use of her powers, helping her with her twins, and the list goes on.  So if Agnes is producing Wandavision--including those commercials that taunt Wanda in insanely personal ways--they've flipped her so hard that it's difficult to absorb.  EVERYTHING about Wandavision feels evil, twisted, and sadistic, and that spells Mephisto as the producer/director, not Agatha Harkness.

I'm also having trouble pinning down whose souls he's after.  The twins?  Wanda?  Agatha?  Westview citizens?  All of the above?  I don't think I can adequately deduce why Mephisto is broadcasting the show without knowing what's in it for him with the whole endeavor.

Although Marvel Studios stays faithful to its comics, it obviously changes things where necessary or where it makes it more convenient. A character like Mephisto could be altered somewhat for the MCU so that his motivation isn't necessarily souls (too much like Satan?) or that he can criss-cross through dimensions or the Multiverse. If Marvel Studios has limited Mephisto's capabilities somewhat so that he's less god-like, then it makes more sense. I really think, if it is Mephisto, that he's not in Westview and is unable to cross over to our Universe. I think his entire motivation since Day One was Wanda's offspring for his own purposes and it's possible he has them now. And I think Agatha has been the producer of WandaVision to broadcast to the Multiverse where Mephisto can view his doings and the progress of the twins.

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Callaway29

Callaway29

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28 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Who is "General Goodner"?  I googled "general goodner marvel" and found nothing.

 

19 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The general who Monica met on the ridge. I believe that's what the general's name was. The name means nothing comics wise, but that was Monica's contact. I think it was a Skrull. I think Nick Fury has Skrull spies planted throughout SWORD to make sure things stay legit.

Major Goodner...

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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11 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Although Marvel Studios stays faithful to its comics, it obviously changes things where necessary or where it makes it more convenient. A character like Mephisto could be altered somewhat for the MCU so that his motivation isn't necessarily souls (too much like Satan?) or that he can criss-cross through dimensions or the Multiverse. If Marvel Studios has limited Mephisto's capabilities somewhat so that he's less god-like, then it makes more sense. I really think, if it is Mephisto, that he's not in Westview and is unable to cross over to our Universe. I think his entire motivation since Day One was Wanda's offspring for his own purposes and it's possible he has them now. And I think Agatha has been the producer of WandaVision to broadcast to the Multiverse where Mephisto can view his doings and the progress of the twins.

I generally disagree that Kevin Feige changes the comics for "convenience."  That's the modus operandi of most film producers of superhero films, but it absolutely isn't Feige's; his mantra all along is stick to the comics unless there's a great reason not to, so I don't think he'd just flip Agatha for the sake of a clever screenplay.  So I can't disagree more strongly about Agatha Harkness being his ally.  Certainly that's what we were just led to believe, no doubt, but we can't believe ANYTHING we see in the Wandavision broadcast, and what we saw at the end of this episode was Mephisto painting Agatha as the big bad just as yet another misdirection from the king of lies to further his goals.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:
6 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

What info do you have that it’s a Skrull?

It's just a guess.

It's nothing I thought watching the show, but it explains why someone within SWORD would be so openly flouting Heyward's authority.  In the moment I wondered why she would risk court-martial just for the daughter of an old friend, but her being a Skrull makes far more sense.

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@therealsilvermane

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2 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I generally disagree that Kevin Feige changes the comics for "convenience."  That's the modus operandi of most film producers of superhero films, but it absolutely isn't Feige's; his mantra all along is stick to the comics unless there's a great reason not to, so I don't think he'd just flip Agatha for the sake of a clever screenplay.  So I can't disagree more strongly about Agatha Harkness being his ally.  Certainly that's what we were just led to believe, no doubt, but we can't believe ANYTHING we see in the Wandavision broadcast, and what we saw at the end of this episode was Mephisto painting Agatha as the big bad just as yet another misdirection from the king of lies to further his goals.

Agatha Harkness obviously can't be the big bad because she's not that in the comics. While I'm sure Marvel wants to elevate her higher than magic nanny to super-heroes, they're not going to make her a Loki/Thanos/Hela level villain. In the comics, Agatha is a good guy, so it's possible she herself is under a spell from the Netherverse.

I think Agatha Harkness' presence in Westview can explain why Wanda is there. In the comics, Wanda sought tutoring in the magic arts from Ms Harkness. It's possible Wanda was lured there by Agatha (under Mr. M's command) to show Wanda a way to draw power from the Multiverse to revive Vision, but unknowingly unleashed Hell on Earth almost literally.

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HighVoltage

HighVoltage

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1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Agatha Harkness obviously can't be the big bad because she's not that in the comics. While I'm sure Marvel wants to elevate her higher than magic nanny to super-heroes, they're not going to make her a Loki/Thanos/Hela level villain. In the comics, Agatha is a good guy, so it's possible she herself is under a spell from the Netherverse.

I think Agatha Harkness' presence in Westview can explain why Wanda is there. In the comics, Wanda sought tutoring in the magic arts from Ms Harkness. It's possible Wanda was lured there by Agatha (under Mr. M's command) to show Wanda a way to draw power from the Multiverse to revive Vision, but unknowingly unleashed Hell on Earth almost literally.

I like that pathway a lot.

Of course it also fits my guess of Agatha as being someone/something directed by a bigger foe.

It doesn't sit right that Agatha is the main villain, or that she'd be outright evil (viewing it from the comic book reader fan perspective).

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

In the comics, Agatha is a good guy, so it's possible she herself is under a spell from the Netherverse.

Mephisto can't force people to do things against their will.  That's his whole nature--he dangles something in front of you to trick you into trading your soul for whatever he's dangling in front of you, and if he can yank the rabbit you're chasing out from in front of your face, he will.  That's the long-established modus operandi for Satan, and in the comics they've kept that parallel in everything I've seen from Mephisto, so if Agatha is doing Mephisto's bidding, she's got some reason for doing it.  If we assume she's producing Wandavision and that she's doing it to appease Mephisto, and that all of the Wanda-taunting and sadism in the commercials is just to keep Mephisto satiated while she protects Wanda and/or the twins...hmm.  Maybe.

The part that doesn't make sense with Wandavision being for Mephisto in his own dimension is the broadcast signal.  An analog television signal is geared towards a very specific device, a human-created technology encoded specifically to be decoded by the electronic machinery within old televisions.  How would it be crossing dimensions, and why would Mephisto need to use that format?  Mephisto is a cosmic being with access to advanced technology, so if he--or Agatha to appease him--is broadcasting in an analog NTSC signal format (which is even different than the ones broadcast in other places on Earth in the mid-20th century), they would need to have a VERY specific reason for doing so.  Crossing dimensions shouldn't be that reason.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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6 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

The part that doesn't make sense with Wandavision being for Mephisto in his own dimension is the broadcast signal.  An analog television signal is geared towards a very specific device, a human-created technology encoded specifically to be decoded by the electronic machinery within old televisions.  How would it be crossing dimensions, and why would Mephisto need to use that format?  Mephisto is a cosmic being with access to advanced technology, so if he--or Agatha to appease him--is broadcasting in an analog NTSC signal format (which is even different than the ones broadcast in other places on Earth in the mid-20th century), they would need to have a VERY specific reason for doing so.  Crossing dimensions shouldn't be that reason.

I posted my theory for this, too. It's comic book movie science, so Marvel can make up whatever rules they want as long as they stick to it. My guess is that a digital binary signal becomes meaningless as it passes through the Multiverse. But perhaps traditional analog radio waves used by old TV's and radios can make it through the Multiverse unscathed, hence, that is why WandaVision is being broadcast analog and why Darcy was able to pick it up through the Hexagon barrier. It also might explain why the drones, which should use a digital signal, can't deliver a video signal once they pass through the Hex.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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Bosco685

Bosco685

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1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I think General Goodner was the aerospace engineer and I think also a Skrull ally. I don't think a SWORD agent would so brazenly oppose Director Heyward and the rest of SWORD if they were otherwise.

Major Goodner

:rulez:

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