SS label for Spawn #297 Retailer Incentive? 0

[MrNoName3000]

I couldn't find a post on this so I figured I'd ask. As many of you know, a retailer variant of Spawn #297 was given out at the recent Diamond event. There are only 500 total, and the vast majority of them were signed by McFarlane.

With that said, would a signed copy come back with a SS label? I understand it may not have actually been witnessed, but when you factor in that there is a finite amount of copies, all of which were given out at this single event that McFarlane attended and signed them, then the signature should be considered "authentic".

In my opinion it would make absolutely zero sense for one of the very few copies that weren't signed to discredit all of those that were.

Does anyone recall a similar scenario with another comic in the past? I can't think of any.

Thanks

[BlowUpTheMoon]

If submitted, it would not come back a yellow label.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

8 minutes ago, diem480 said:

15 minutes ago, BlowUpTheMoon said:

If submitted, it would not come back a yellow label.

And my question is why? What's the rationale behind it not receiving a yellow label considering only a handful out of 500 weren't signed. If anything, unsigned ones would be a red flag for fakes.

It would not receive a yellow label because the signature was not witnessed by a CGC representative. 

[Bird]

any unsigned books could easily be forged if they were to accept them blindly. Despite the circumstances it really is no different than any other unwitnessed signature.

[ADAMANTIUM]

13 minutes ago, diem480 said:

And my question is why? What's the rationale behind it not receiving a yellow label considering only a handful out of 500 weren't signed. If anything, unsigned ones would be a red flag for fakes.

Todd does specific signings with cgc. He knows the process and the agreement and what qualifies books for signature series.

That said, seems Todd did not go that route.

Cgc, not that they would, may go against even Todd's intentions if the bent the rules.

Some artists will sign for money or for free, but not sign at all or charge more when submitting for signature series...

[Bird]

1 minute ago, diem480 said:

Circumstances do make a difference though, if every single copy was signed at an extremely publicized event then it would make absolutely 0 sense for them to not come back as having verified signatures.

but you said not every single copy was signed. And are there other copies, overages or artist comps, etc. The chain was broken when they left the room. Were there any sketched on? etc. cgc cannot know all these answers which is why they have specific rules that must be followed.

[ADAMANTIUM]

3 minutes ago, diem480 said:

Circumstances do make a difference though, if every single copy was signed at an extremely publicized event then it would make absolutely 0 sense for them to not come back as having verified signatures.

The same reason you regard signature series, in fact, would not be regarded as such if they bent the rules...

A witness has to receive the book signed directly from the artist, the chain of custody is already broken in this situation....

Don't blame cgc blame McFarlane 

Edited June 6, 2019 by ADAMANTIUM

[MrNoName3000]

2 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Todd does specific signings with cgc. He knows the process and the agreement and what qualifies books for signature series.

That said, seems Todd did not go that route.

Cgc, not that they would, may go against even Todd's intentions if the bent the rules.

Some artists will sign for money or for free, but not sign at all or charge more when submitting for signature series...

This is a different scenario though. This isn't where hundreds of signatures occurred across hundreds of different comics throughout multiple days

In the event where every single comic was signed CGC couldn't dispute that it was an authentic signature.

[Bird]

You can try to justify it all night long but the fact is it won't get a yellow label, nor should it. It was an unwitnessed signature. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Who says cgc "disputes it"

Rules are rules, it's called integrity

 

[MrNoName3000]

3 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

The same reason you regard signature series, in fact, would not be regarded as such if they bent the rules...

A witness has to receive the book signed directly from the artist, the chain of custody is already broken in this situation....

Don't blame cgc blame McFarlane 

Why would I blame McFarlane? If the event where every single comic was signed then it should come back as authenticated. 

It just so happens that in this scenario maybe 5-10 weren't.

I'm not so much concerned with this specific issue as I am with it establishing a precedent where incentives like this are being released more frequently and each one will receive a label that effectively states it can be a fake.

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 minutes ago, diem480 said:

Why would I blame McFarlane? 

Because he does signings specifically FOR cgc...

This time he didn't 

That's not on cgc...

[MrNoName3000]

Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

Because he does signings specifically FOR cgc...

This time he didn't 

That's not on cgc...

That is irrelevant, the whole point of yellow labels is to determine that a signature is authentic, regardless as not whether or not someone does specific cgc signing events.

Again, when a future incentive like this comes out (which there will be) where every single copy of that comic is signed then it should have a yellow label because there aren't any that don't have them. 

Quite frankly, if the scenario outlined above results in a label that questions the authenticity of the signature I'll be switching my dealer account over to CBCS. And yeah, I'm just one person, but I know of plenty of other dealers who have qualms with several  of CGC practices, especially the inflated scores that books receive when submitted and graded on-site at a conventions.

[Bird]

The yellow label  does not reflect an authentic signature it is a witnessed signature they do not authenticate signatures

[MrNoName3000]

1 minute ago, Bird said:

The yellow label  does not reflect an authentic signature it is a witnessed signature they do not authenticate signatures

It absolutely does reflect an authentic signature, it is directly stated in the description of the label found on CGCs site.

[Bird]

Just now, diem480 said:

It absolutely does reflect an authentic signature, it is directly stated in the description of the label found on CGCs site.

Yes an authentic and witnessed signature but they don’t authenticate signatures that are not witnessed 

[obiedagod]

[Bird]

Just now, diem480 said:

You're wrong, in that same description it says comics can receive this label when they're directly received from the signer or publisher, 0 witnesses are involved. 

This is extremely similar to the Spawn #297 scenario, and pretty much identical to the scenario where every single copy is signed.

Essentially what I'm seeing is that CGC will authenticate something as long as it's in their best interest.

Yes I was aware that I left out direct submissions from the artists but that’s not what we were talking about

[Domo Arigato]

35 minutes ago, diem480 said:

You're wrong, in that same description it says comics can receive this label when they're directly received from the signer or publisher, 0 witnesses are involved. 

This is extremely similar to the Spawn #297 scenario, and pretty much identical to the scenario where every single copy is signed.

In that same description, it says comics may receive this label when they're directly received from the signer or publisher if accompanied by the appropriate documentation.  In either of your "what if" scenarios, Is the signer or publisher submitting the books along with the appropriate documentation?

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Domo Arigato

[Crops068]

The only way the 297s would be Sig Series are if there was a witness for CGC there and that witness ensured the chain of custody was not broken for all the books OR if Todd submitted all of the books with the required documentation.  There is no grey area here for interpretation.

Anything else would go against the entire premise of CGC's Sig Series rules.