The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[OtherEric]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:16 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Lacking in finesse, on occasion, she was. A few of mine have the stacking smudges on the back too. Which is nice.

 

 

Any other thread on these forums, I would read "nice" as dripping with epic amounts of sarcasm in this context.  This thread, we mean it unironically.  You're a wonderful bunch of comic loving geeks to hang out with and I'm happy you've accepted me here even if I am a Yank.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:52 PM, OtherEric said:

Any other thread on these forums, I would read "nice" as dripping with epic amounts of sarcasm in this context.  This thread, we mean it unironically.  You're a wonderful bunch of comic loving geeks to hang out with and I'm happy you've accepted me here even if I am a Yank.

No problem at all.

The only thing that bugs me is that you got the chance to leaf through all those hallowed pages weeks or even months before we did.

While we we waiting for a tramp steamer to make its laborious way to our shores, you had already read the cargo on board, and the next couple of issues too, in all probability.

[Malacoda]

While we're on DG and his Ethels ( I think I called them Donna, but Candy & Crystal seem about right), something that does throw up a couple of interesting factoids:  he was sued for unfair dismissal specifically by some of his Ethels in 1976.  The case is actually Noble vs David Gold (so I guess Donna sits better with Noble?).   Weirdly, the company is actually called David Gold & Son, although he had no son.  

In 1976, there were lay offs in which women were made redundant (but not men) which were contested as sexually discriminatory.  The case was found for Gold (and again on appeal) because of the division of labour. The men were used for the heavy lifting and the women for "sorting, distributing, arranging and labelling and so forth - which had diminished" which is why it was only women who were laid off. 

The interesting facts that surface for us are: 

They worked in a warehouse on a trading estate in the East End of London.

Books and magazines came into the warehouse from publishers in England and in the United States.

They were unloaded from vans, and carried in forklift trucks on pallets to benches where they were unpacked, sorted, arranged, priced and labelled. They were then packed again for distribution to some 600 outlets in England and Wales.

There were about half a dozen women and somewhat more men doing this work.

In the middle of 1976 the employers found that the work had fallen off and made redundancies.  Specifically it was the lighter side of the work - the sorting, distributing, arranging and labelling and so forth - which had diminished. They therefore decided that some of the people doing that lighter work would have to be made redundant.  Quoting from the tribunal: 

"… for various reasons it was the lighter work that had diminished by the autumn of 1976, and … this was caused by the fall-away of the importation of the United States 'pulp' magazines, as a result of currency problems, the higher cost of transport, and the improved competition of United Kingdom producers, who could put the prices in English money on their products at their factories, thus reducing the volume of work …" So the tribunal found that it was the lighter work which had diminished - the work of sorting, distributing, arranging and labelling - which was done on the benches in the warehouse. 

On appeal, it was decided that if the ladies could prove that women had been discriminated against in competing for the heavy manual labour jobs, then that would indeed have been discriminatory but as they had only ever applied for the packing & labelling jobs, there was no case to answer. 

So what we learn is that Gold collated all the magazines together (US & UK) in a central warehouse in the East End.  They were re-priced and labelled as necessary by a team of about 6 Ethels there and then distributed to 600 outlets in England & Wales (not NI or Scotland).  I assume outlets means local wholesalers not retailers as 600 would be a tiny number. 

I know that Gold was still putting stickers on US imported comics up to 1977: Deadly Hands of Kung Fu 32 - Jan 1977,  I think the last issue of Savage Sword of Conan which was imported was 24 in November 1977.  This is the exact point where the UK reprints in magazine form begin, so to Gold's point about being pushed out by UK priced editions this would seem to tie up exactly. 

Does anyone have idea which are the last issues of anything with Goldstar price stickers on them?  

 

 

 

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 4/4/2024 at 6:08 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

No problem at all.

The only thing that bugs me is that you got the chance to leaf through all those hallowed pages weeks or even months before we did.

While we we waiting for a tramp steamer to make its laborious way to our shores, you had already read the cargo on board, and the next couple of issues too, in all probability.

If they can forgive us for burning the White House down, it's probably time to let go of this one, Albert. 

[OtherEric]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:18 AM, Malacoda said:

The case is actually Noble vs David Gold (so I guess Donna sits better with Noble?)

I have no idea who you're referring to.  Should we call the Doctor?

On 4/4/2024 at 10:26 AM, Malacoda said:

If they can forgive us for burning the White House down, it's probably time to let go of this one, Albert. 

It was your Lord Grade who had the good sense to finance Henson making the Muppet Show.  Given how much joy just that has given me over the years I'll forgive you any number of things.  Admittedly, burning down the White House a second time would be pushing things...

[themagicrobot]

 

[themagicrobot]

@OtherEric Of the thousands of UK hardback Annuals there were Muppet ones of course.

[OtherEric]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:18 AM, themagicrobot said:

@OtherEric Of the thousands of UK hardback Annuals there were Muppet ones of course.

I do need to track those down one of these years... I do have this, though:

I wonder why the US never really tried Muppet Comics until the mid-80's?  When we were looking for the first US Muppet comic these were about the best we could find, parody or serious:

[themagicrobot]

Yesterday I found a copy of Jigsaw No 1 and Adventures into the Unknown 4 in a box file mixed in with some 1970s Marvel UK comics. They hadn't seen the light of day for 30 years. So today I decided to collect the full run of Jigsaw. This seemed an attainable goal being as there were only two issues. They are still reasonably priced/so rubbish no one wants them (choose the phrase you prefer). 

So when exactly did L. Miller cease trading??  The few available sources say 1966. This Harvey comic has a cover date of December 1966 and was on sale in the US from the 15th September 1966 so I suppose it could have rocked up in the UK in late 1966 but it may have arrived in early 1967? As it displays a Miller ink stamp it must have been one of the last comics they distributed?? Discuss.

PS: Typing "Jigsaw Comic" into eByGumBay I discovered these. I own a couple of Warren jigsaws I never knew there were such things as Charlton jigsaws. Why anyone would want to sell/buy a jigsaw with missing pieces is beyond me.

 

PPS: Have you noticed how Harvey comics often have their titles obscuring the Comic Code stamp whilst ACG makes sure the Comic Code stamp obscures their title.

PPPS: Here is the back cover of that Adventures into the Unknown No 4. I guess it would be up to Gladys and Ethel to send out copies of the Justice Traps the Guilty Album. It would make a change from price stamping for the staff but I doubt if there would be a mad rush from the UK public for such a (quite expensive at the time) niche publication. You deface your comic by cutting out the coupon. Then you send it to "the address at the bottom". But the T&P address is at the top of the coupon? So to London? Or to Gladys and Ethel at Leicester?

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by themagicrobot

[Hulksdaddy1]

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/the-amazing-spider-man-1-uk-price-variant-marvel-1963-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7369-91006.s

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:43 AM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/superhero/the-amazing-spider-man-1-uk-price-variant-marvel-1963-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7369-91006.s

Oo-er.

I made an offer in late 1980s pricing - a couple of hundred hundred quid - and it got rejected.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/7/2024 at 6:25 PM, themagicrobot said:

So when exactly did L. Miller cease trading??  The few available sources say 1966. This Harvey comic has a cover date of December 1966 and was on sale in the US from the 15th September 1966 so I suppose it could have rocked up in the UK in late 1966 but it may have arrived in early 1967? As it displays a Miller ink stamp it must have been one of the last comics they distributed?? Discuss.

Nice. 1966 is often mentioned but I have stamped books going all the way up to 1970. I started this table a few years ago - never finished it - and I've likely got earlier and later examples now:

I'd like to get around to finishing that at some point, as part of a wider piece on Miller.

Florrie clearly carried the company on in some capacity. There are also letters dated in the 1970s to be found online, with the Miller office masthead.

On 4/7/2024 at 6:25 PM, themagicrobot said:

 

PS: Typing "Jigsaw Comic" into eByGumBay I discovered these. I own a couple of Warren jigsaws I never knew there were such things as Charlton jigsaws. Why anyone would want to sell/buy a jigsaw with missing pieces is beyond me.

 

Yeah, who'd want one of those! 

 

 

 

Me 

On 4/7/2024 at 6:25 PM, themagicrobot said:

PPS: Have you noticed how Harvey comics often have their titles obscuring the Comic Code stamp whilst ACG makes sure the Comic Code stamp obscures their title.

You have I good eye, Robot.

I noticed this when I was tinkering with the Harvey (UK) 15c variants. They always seem to cut it off, top right:

Do you think it was deliberate? Maybe that invalidated it, so they could get away with fat shaming and the like:

On 4/7/2024 at 6:25 PM, themagicrobot said:

PPPS: Here is the back cover of that Adventures into the Unknown No 4. I guess it would be up to Gladys and Ethel to send out copies of the Justice Traps the Guilty Album. It would make a change from price stamping for the staff but I doubt if there would be a mad rush from the UK public for such a (quite expensive at the time) niche publication. You deface your comic by cutting out the coupon. Then you send it to "the address at the bottom". But the T&P address is at the top of the coupon? So to London? Or to Gladys and Ethel at Leicester?

 

 

Love it 

[Get Marwood & I]

I've posted at length about the Roberts & Vinter 'shield' stamps on Charltons in the past and spotted this copy of Horror Monsters at the fair yesterday:

I love the price sticker.

Anyroad (Fred Elliott), there are two UK stamped versions, one with the R&V shield, and one with a bog standard two an six:

 

I spent a bit of time on these a few years back, as you can see...

...but this is the first copy of one that I've actually had in hand.

There is a brilliant ad inside for Charlton comics - I love that:

The obviously didn't have scissors back in the 1960s.

The big discovery for me was that the R&V stamp on the cover is just that - an after printing stamp. You can feel the indentation that it has made and, hopefully, see it in the photo below:

It's quite a deep indentation, but I can't detect any impression on the splash page. Make of that what you will. I have a few examples of this issue in the files, and the cover placement seems the same on all issues, implying mechanical application. 

I love this kind of thing. No way of knowing whether it was applied at source, or later in the UK. No way of knowing why there are two types and whether those two are the work of one or two distributors.

All good fun.

He's one ugly sod isn't he, our cover star.

She...? 

[Get Marwood & I]

Still on Miller, look at this:

How cool is that?

Now, try finding anything out about it, online. It's probably buried out there somewhere, in a blog, mag or book. Or maybe not. 

I've banged the drum more than anyone alive to alert the community about Miller's non-reprint UK distribution activities. It's all he'd been known for, for 70 years - reprinting stuff. But now we also know that he was joint first on the Marvel UKPV front and distributed Charlton (as UKPVs and stamped copies), Harvey, IW and Archie US originals here.

But even on the reprint front, so little is known. My task now is to try to find out what Captain Tornado actually reprints if, indeed, it does. The only other Captain Tornado I can find (in Dell's Popular Comics) doesn't look a whole lot like the Miller content:

 

I haven't looked that hard yet, to be fair, but definitely a job for another day (unless we have a Captain Tornado aficionado reading) 

 

Spoiler

Update:

https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=3077

"All issues featured French reprints with art by Roubinet"

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=58235

"This is a reprint of the French strip "Capitaine Tornade," which appeared in the magazines "Zorro" and "L'Invincible" between 1948 and 1954. Art by Claude-Henri Julliard, scripts by Jacques Jacquemont"

 

[themagicrobot]

On 4/8/2024 at 8:11 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Anyroad (Fred Elliott), there are two UK stamped versions, one with the R&V shield, and one with a bog standard two an six:

 

There are actually at least three variations. Don't forget this "U K Edition" one. The "shield" stamps and that big 2/6 stamp always look so clear, unlike many of the fuzzy T&P stamps that I wonder if they were done by machine? This third one was perhaps done by hand. I'm not prepared to spend £90 to check more closely  

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:03 AM, themagicrobot said:

There are actually at least three variations. Don't forget this "U K Edition" one. The "shield" stamps and that big 2/6 stamp always look so clear, unlike many of the fuzzy T&P stamps that I wonder if they were done by machine? This third one was perhaps done by hand. I'm not prepared to spend £90 to check more closely  

I meant on that particular issue Robot - the two tables I posted earlier show the various pricing scenarios that I found across the title runs.

I suppose the salient differences are the branded shield vs non-shield. Here's some better images - you can see the slightly different placements in them:

 

[themagicrobot]

On 4/8/2024 at 7:56 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Do you think it was deliberate? Maybe that invalidated it, so they could get away with fat shaming and the like:

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:37 AM, themagicrobot said:

 

Obscuring and corner chopping. Feels deliberate, doesn't it... 

[Malacoda]

@Get Marwood & I  Blimey, when you come back, you're really back. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/8/2024 at 3:30 PM, Malacoda said:

@Get Marwood & I  Blimey, when you come back, you're really back. 

It's amazing what you can knock out in half an hour, isn't it