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Official TMNT Speculation Thread
14 14

Started by pubmonkey,

1,215 posts in this topic

GM8

GM8

Posted
Posted
On 8/14/2023 at 2:04 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Closer to 30%.  10-6% of the hammer price (depending on price), plus the full BP.  So on a 52.8K final, you're looking at 27% of that sale going to Heritage.  

That sounds high. I sold a 9.6 through Heritage and it hammered at 66K. My cut was 55K, so 11K in fees or 17% of the full hammer price.

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jaybuck43

jaybuck43

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Posted
On 8/15/2023 at 8:13 AM, GM8 said:

That sounds high. I sold a 9.6 through Heritage and it hammered at 66K. My cut was 55K, so 11K in fees or 17% of the full hammer price.

Did you negotiate a deal or have a coupon or something (yes, they're real.  I have several.) When was the auction? The current BP for comics is 20%, of which (unless negotiated otherwise) HA keeps all.  And then there is the fee schedule:

PRICE OF THE BOOK  FEE PERCENTAGE 
less than $5000  10 % ($25 minimum) 
$5000 - $9999  9 % 
$10,000 - $24,999  8 % 
$25,000 - $99,999  7 % 
$100,000 - $499,999  6 % 
$500,000 and up  5 %

 

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GM8

GM8

Posted
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On 8/15/2023 at 9:29 AM, jaybuck43 said:

Did you negotiate a deal or have a coupon or something (yes, they're real.  I have several.) When was the auction? The current BP for comics is 20%, of which (unless negotiated otherwise) HA keeps all.  And then there is the fee schedule:

PRICE OF THE BOOK  FEE PERCENTAGE 
less than $5000  10 % ($25 minimum) 
$5000 - $9999  9 % 
$10,000 - $24,999  8 % 
$25,000 - $99,999  7 % 
$100,000 - $499,999  6 % 
$500,000 and up  5 %

 

A few years ago. Now that I think of it, I did negotiate the fee to be waived due to the price of the book. A nice problem to have.

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jaybuck43

jaybuck43

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On 8/15/2023 at 2:48 PM, GM8 said:

A few years ago. Now that I think of it, I did negotiate the fee to be waived due to the price of the book. A nice problem to have.

Yea, that makes a lot more sense.  Hot/expensive book they'll negotiate with you, IF you know to bring it up.  But the little old lady brining in her books is gonna get fleeced for 27%.  But for me, anything right now goes to CL.  They're right up the road in Hoboken for drop off and i get 90% without any negotiating (more if I have something they really want to sell.  

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valiantman

valiantman

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Posted
On 8/15/2023 at 7:13 AM, GM8 said:

That sounds high. I sold a 9.6 through Heritage and it hammered at 66K. My cut was 55K, so 11K in fees or 17% of the full hammer price.

Just checking... if it hammered at $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K to Heritage (with Buyer's Premium) and Heritage sent you $55K, correct?  If so, you got 70% of the buyer's payment and Heritage got 30%.

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Bronty

Bronty

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Posted (edited)
On 8/17/2023 at 1:44 AM, valiantman said:

Just checking... if it hammered at $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K to Heritage (with Buyer's Premium) and Heritage sent you $55K, correct?  If so, you got 70% of the buyer's payment and Heritage got 30%.

I think he's confused on the usage of the 'hammer price' term.

You can get SP waived with big enough aggregate consignments.

So if something hammers at 55k, its 66 with the juice, and HA sends you a check for 55.

Fees are 1/6 of the all-in price, or 16.66% which he's rounding to 17%.

Edited by Bronty
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valiantman

valiantman

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On 8/17/2023 at 10:01 AM, Bronty said:
On 8/17/2023 at 12:44 AM, valiantman said:

Just checking... if it hammered at $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K to Heritage (with Buyer's Premium) and Heritage sent you $55K, correct?  If so, you got 70% of the buyer's payment and Heritage got 30%.

I think he's confused on the usage of the 'hammer price' term.

You can get SP waived with big enough aggregate consignments.

So if something hammers at 55k, its 66 with the juice, and HA sends you a check for 55.

Fees are 1/6 of the all-in price, or 16.66% which he's rounding to 17%.

Right. So if the "hammer price" (Heritage price before the buyer has to pay another 20%) was $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K.

If the "hammer price" was $55K (Heritage price before the buyer has to pay another 20%), and then he received a check for $55K, then it sounds like the buyer paid $66K (which is $55K + 20%), so his seller fee to Heritage was waived completed (0%).

Either way, it's good information, but they are two different scenarios.

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Bronty

Bronty

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On 8/17/2023 at 11:54 AM, valiantman said:

Right. So if the "hammer price" (Heritage price before the buyer has to pay another 20%) was $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K.

If the "hammer price" was $55K (Heritage price before the buyer has to pay another 20%), and then he received a check for $55K, then it sounds like the buyer paid $66K (which is $55K + 20%), so his seller fee to Heritage was waived completed (0%).

Either way, it's good information, but they are two different scenarios.

Sure, but I'd bet money its the way I laid it out.   I've had that same fee structure on consignments myself.

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/17/2023 at 10:57 AM, Bronty said:
On 8/17/2023 at 10:54 AM, valiantman said:

Right. So if the "hammer price" (Heritage price before the buyer has to pay another 20%) was $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K.

If the "hammer price" was $55K (Heritage price before the buyer has to pay another 20%), and then he received a check for $55K, then it sounds like the buyer paid $66K (which is $55K + 20%), so his seller fee to Heritage was waived completed (0%).

Either way, it's good information, but they are two different scenarios.

Sure, but I'd bet money its the way I laid it out.   I've had that same fee structure on consignments myself.

Since there is a final sale price of $66K from September 2021 recorded in GPA, I think you're right. It's the second scenario, that the "hammer price" (before Heritage buyer's premium) was $55K, the buyer paid $66K (with buyer's premium), and the seller received $55K, meaning he paid 0% to Heritage, they took all their profits from the buyer's premium (16.7% of the payment for the book).

Edited by valiantman
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GM8

GM8

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/17/2023 at 1:44 AM, valiantman said:

Just checking... if it hammered at $66K, then the buyer paid $79.2K to Heritage (with Buyer's Premium) and Heritage sent you $55K, correct?  If so, you got 70% of the buyer's payment and Heritage got 30%.

No, the buyer's premium (total price) was 66K, not higher.

Similar to this one, the total price was $192K. The seller received whatever their arrangement with Heritage was minus the fee. In my case it was the 17%.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-signed-copy-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7274-91029.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited by GM8
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GM8

GM8

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Posted (edited)
On 8/21/2023 at 9:32 AM, GM8 said:

No, the buyer's premium (total price) was 66K, not higher.

Similar to this one, the total price was $192K. The seller received whatever their arrangement with Heritage was minus the fee. In my case it was the 17%.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-signed-copy-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7274-91029.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

this was my book:

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/a/7242-91047.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

To be transparent, there is/was the possibility of listing another high-end book that went along with this. Which likely provided more flexibility to me, fee-wise. I was miffed however, because another 9.6 sold on Comic Connect almost right after for somewhere in the 70-80K range (I'm traveling and don't have access to my DB).

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valiantman

valiantman

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Posted (edited)
On 8/21/2023 at 8:32 AM, GM8 said:

No, the buyer's premium (total price) was 66K, not higher.

The confusion was because you said "it hammered at 66k".  The "hammer price" does not have the buyer's premium included.

When Heritage does an auction, they have a little hammer (or some hammer-noise-maker), and they "hammered" at $55K (for your book). 

Heritage acts like the buyer's premium isn't important while they're doing the auction, because why remind people that they'll be paying 20% extra?

So, it "hammered at $55k", the total paid was $66k, and you received 55k... meaning you paid 0% seller fees, and received 16.7% of what they received for the book.

We already figured it out in this topic after some conversation.

Edited by valiantman
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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
On 8/21/2023 at 10:28 AM, valiantman said:

The confusion was because you said "it hammered at 66k".  The "hammer price" does not have the buyer's premium included.

When Heritage does an auction, they have a little hammer (or some hammer-noise-maker), and they "hammered" at $55K (for your book). 

Heritage acts like the buyer's premium isn't important while they're doing the auction, because why remind people that they'll be paying 20% extra?

So, it "hammered at $55k", the total paid was $66k, and you received 55k... meaning you paid 0% seller fees, and received 16.7% of what they received for the book.

We already figured it out in this topic after some conversation.

TBH I don't think that's fair or accurate.    It gives us both numbers every time we bid.   We have to be really not paying attention to "forget" that there is 20% extra.    We are reminded at every step of the process.

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/21/2023 at 4:07 PM, Bronty said:

TBH I don't think that's fair or accurate.    It gives us both numbers every time we bid.   We have to be really not paying attention to "forget" that there is 20% extra.    We are reminded at every step of the process.

Watching live, they never mention buyer's premium. Bidders on the phone probably aren't reminded every time they're told what the next bid is.  Yes, we see it online (small font), but the "classic auction" structure that Heritage attempts to replicate ignores buyer's premium. It only becomes "prominent" after the auction (when it's time to pay and write press releases).

Edited by valiantman
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pubmonkey

pubmonkey

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  • Author
Posted
On 8/21/2023 at 8:07 PM, valiantman said:

Watching live, they never mention buyer's premium. Bidders on the phone probably aren't reminded every time they're told what the next bid is.  Yes, we see it online (small font), but the "classic auction" structure that Heritage attempts to replicate ignores buyer's premium. It only becomes "prominent" after the auction (when it's time to pay and write press releases).

I've always disliked this about some auction houses. The price you are going to pay should be the price displayed...

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
On 8/21/2023 at 8:07 PM, valiantman said:

Watching live, they never mention buyer's premium. Bidders on the phone probably aren't reminded every time they're told what the next bid is.  Yes, we see it online (small font), but the "classic auction" structure that Heritage attempts to replicate ignores buyer's premium. It only becomes "prominent" after the auction (when it's time to pay and write press releases).

they mention the BP at the start of every auction.   
 

It seems to me like the BP annoys you.    That’s obviously fine, but let’s not conflate annoyance with surprise.    You know about the BP, I know about the BP, I would say every serious and every regular bidder (certainly including anyone going to the trouble of having a HA rep call them on the phone) knows about the BP. 

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
On 8/26/2023 at 4:42 PM, Bronty said:
On 8/21/2023 at 7:07 PM, valiantman said:

Watching live, they never mention buyer's premium. Bidders on the phone probably aren't reminded every time they're told what the next bid is.  Yes, we see it online (small font), but the "classic auction" structure that Heritage attempts to replicate ignores buyer's premium. It only becomes "prominent" after the auction (when it's time to pay and write press releases).

they mention the BP at the start of every auction.   
 

It seems to me like the BP annoys you.    That’s obviously fine, but let’s not conflate annoyance with surprise.    You know about the BP, I know about the BP, I would say every serious and every regular bidder (certainly including anyone going to the trouble of having a HA rep call them on the phone) knows about the BP. 

What's the hammer price, then?

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