Super Strict Grading 1 1

[ftlepore]

31 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

You may be surprised at how different it can be depending upon the location and type of light. It's one of the things that makes grading books a lot more difficult than most people think...

I think the main point here is that, when the industry is relying on consistency and quality, there should be consist light quality whenever you're grading books. I can't even imagine CGC grading books in multiple different environments with varying light quality. That seems extremely lazy and unprofessional.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/6/2020 at 6:09 PM, ftlepore said:

I actually agree with this. As I said, if the copy of FF #52 in question was graded a 6.5 last year through CGC, then all of a sudden the very next year the same exact book goes down in page and grade quality without being touched, that's going to invalidate A LOT of slabbed book grades. That seems terrible for the market. "Oh, it's a Hulk #181 7.5? Is it an old 7.5 or a new 7.5? Is it really closer to a 6.5? Who knows!" The majority of people buying books aren't professional graders, and the entire point of slabbing books is to have a uniform grade that we can reference and trust. For CGC to change the standard this drastically, it makes thousands, if not millions of grades suspect. If we're still forced to meticulously grade the books within the slab ourselves, it kind of defeats the purpose.

Why should CGC care about the market?

There's also a thing that happens to pages of paper. Most of us call it "aging". At some point in time the PQ is going to dive from once you what observed it to be.

Pro Tip: CGC is not the authority on grading. You are not forced to agree with their opinion of a book's grade.

[ftlepore]

Oddly condescending response, but okay.

If CGC stops caring about the market and their effect on it, then people are going to find alternatives. That's pretty simple. Once the company that EVERYONE uses as the market standard stops caring about the market, they're going to lose credibility and that's bad for business.

I guess 2019 alone was a terrible year for this "aging" you mentioned, since that's when multiple of these 70 year old books "aged." I guess I was just coincidentally right on the cusp and 2020 was just The Year of Cream. 🤔

[The Lions Den]

9 hours ago, ftlepore said:

I think the main point here is that, when the industry is relying on consistency and quality, there should be consist light quality whenever you're grading books. I can't even imagine CGC grading books in multiple different environments with varying light quality. That seems extremely lazy and unprofessional.

What I'm saying is that any change in the grading environment takes a certain amount of adjustment and could lead to a slight variance in page quality designation. It's a possibility, not a certainty. And it's to CGC's credit that even under adverse conditions they can still deliver outstanding results. They should be commended for offering a service such as onsite grading even though there's a ton of extra work involved...

[theCapraAegagrus]

7 minutes ago, ftlepore said:

Oddly condescending response, but okay.

If CGC stops caring about the market and their effect on it, then people are going to find alternatives. That's pretty simple. Once the company that EVERYONE uses as the market standard stops caring about the market, they're going to lose credibility and that's bad for business.

I guess 2019 alone was a terrible year for this "aging" you mentioned, since that's when multiple of these 70 year old books "aged." I guess I was just coincidentally right on the cusp and 2020 was just The Year of Cream. 🤔

Why are you conflating "informative" with "condescending"?

There already are alternatives. I've seen these "lose credibility" claims for years and it hasn't ever happened. You're not going to manipulate CGC into agreeing with your opinion when you're paying for theirs.

Paper ages. Doesn't matter if it's 2019, 2020, 2031, or 2045. One of those years the PQ was going to be judged lower than what it was years prior.

[ftlepore]

12 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

What I'm saying is that any change in the grading environment takes a certain amount of adjustment and could lead to a slight variance in page quality designation. It's a possibility, not a certainty. And it's to CGC's credit that even under adverse conditions they can still deliver outstanding results. They should be commended for offering a service such as onsite grading even though there's a ton of extra work involved...

But they aren't delivering outstanding results. That's the entire point of this thread. They're delivering mixed results depending on grader, year, and environment, apparently. If people have to literally stop submitting books to CGC during certain time periods due to fluctuations in grading, the quality is not consistent. I think most people here on the boards who have been around long enough can grade a book without 2 grade points (grading a 7.0 between a 6.0 and a 8.0, for example), so to imply CGC is doing outstanding work because they also get it within this range, rather than on the dot every time which is their singular job, feels incorrect is not really the standard that myself, or many others I would assume by this thread, are looking for.

 

6 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Why are you conflating "informative" with "condescending"?

There already are alternatives. I've seen these "lose credibility" claims for years and it hasn't ever happened. You're not going to manipulate CGC into agreeing with your opinion when you're paying for theirs.

Paper ages. Doesn't matter if it's 2019, 2020, 2031, or 2045. One of those years the PQ was going to be judged lower than what it was years prior.

Not really conflating anything, thanks, but I guess also presuming your post is "informative" is also a really weird thing to do. If you're seriously alleging that "there's also a thing that happens to pages of paper. Most of us call it "aging" and "Pro Tip" weren't meant to be condescending, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. For sure man, books age. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. But you're really oversimplifying for some reason, and not looking at the big picture, where four books that were graded within the last couple years as OW/W came back C/OW. Either all four of these books, in slabs, miraculously aged to cream in one year while being stored in boxes, or it's a grading issue that many others have experienced in this very thread. Not sure why we're leaning toward the first option here.

[theCapraAegagrus]

9 minutes ago, ftlepore said:

Not really conflating anything, thanks, but I guess also presuming your post is "informative" is also a really weird thing to do. If you're seriously alleging that "there's also a thing that happens to pages of paper. Most of us call it "aging" and "Pro Tip" weren't meant to be condescending, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. For sure man, books age. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. But you're really oversimplifying for some reason, and not looking at the big picture, where four books that were graded within the last couple years as OW/W came back C/OW. Either all four of these books, in slabs, miraculously aged to cream in one year while being stored in boxes, or it's a grading issue that many others have experienced in this very thread. Not sure why we're leaning toward the first option here.

If you're inferring something that isn't being implied, then it's not a matter of disagreement. If you think that pages are eternally one quality, then my post exists to inform you that you're wrong. Just because they were "stored in boxes" does not exempt them from aging. Aging is literally, like Thanos, inevitable.

[The Lions Den]

7 minutes ago, ftlepore said:

But they aren't delivering outstanding results. That's the entire point of this thread. They're delivering mixed results depending on grader, year, and environment, apparently. If people have to literally stop submitting books to CGC during certain time periods due to fluctuations in grading, the quality is not consistent. I think most people here on the boards who have been around long enough can grade a book without 2 grade points (grading a 7.0 between a 6.0 and a 8.0, for example), so to imply CGC is doing outstanding work because they also get it within this range, rather than on the dot every time which is their singular job, feels incorrect is not really the standard that myself, or many others I would assume by this thread, are looking for.

 

Not really conflating anything, thanks, but I guess also presuming your post is "informative" is also a really weird thing to do. If you're seriously alleging that "there's also a thing that happens to pages of paper. Most of us call it "aging" and "Pro Tip" weren't meant to be condescending, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. For sure man, books age. Literally no one is disagreeing with you. But you're really oversimplifying for some reason, and not looking at the big picture, where four books that were graded within the last couple years as OW/W came back C/OW. Either all four of these books, in slabs, miraculously aged to cream in one year while being stored in boxes, or it's a grading issue that many others have experienced in this very thread. Not sure why we're leaning toward the first option here.

Well, it's your prerogative to use a different service if you're so inclined. I certainly wish you the best of luck...  

[kimik]

On 11/8/2020 at 7:11 AM, joeypost said:

In this case, the book may look structurally better, but is downgraded due to tanning. I have seen books that look 9.4 or better, that have come back in the 8.0 range due to cover tanning. 

Definitely. The 7.5 on the ASM 40 looks generous to me as well. 

[1950's war comics]

9 hours ago, kimik said:

Definitely. The 7.5 on the ASM 40 looks generous to me as well. 

agree ... the 7.5 looks to be a gift grade... looks more like 7.0

[SecretComicRoom]

21 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I'm sorry for everyone that has had a bad experience, but that's one of the reasons I don't have any book pressed unless it's an excellent candidate and it can be substantially improved with a pressing. Personally, I always consider it to be a roll of the dice...

What part of books being selected by a competent presser as an excellent candidate are you having trouble understanding? We are NOT talking about Joe shmo who just picked up a pressing guide, t shirt press and some steal ball bearings here. We are talking about people who are basically experts at pressing here. Guys who have been submitting and working on cracking and pressing books for 10 years... every single day! 

14 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Why should CGC care about the market?

There's also a thing that happens to pages of paper. Most of us call it "aging". At some point in time the PQ is going to dive from once you what observed it to be.

Pro Tip: CGC is not the authority on grading. You are not forced to agree with their opinion of a book's grade.

PRO TIP... FROM AN ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL HERE- "aging" of paper does not happen to that degree while encapsulated. Sorry to burst ur pro tip bubble. 

 

[SecretComicRoom]

11 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

If you're inferring something that isn't being implied, then it's not a matter of disagreement. If you think that pages are eternally one quality, then my post exists to inform you that you're wrong. Just because they were "stored in boxes" does not exempt them from aging. Aging is literally, like Thanos, inevitable.

my post exists to inform you that you are the one who is wrong sir! Because these books were not "stored in boxes" they were "encapsulated in archival Smithsonian museum quality like materials" which greatly slows the "aging" process. Or do you not know what those shiny plastic cases with grades before and after, are?? 

[SecretComicRoom]

11 hours ago, ftlepore said:

Oddly condescending response, but okay.

If CGC stops caring about the market and their effect on it, then people are going to find alternatives. That's pretty simple. Once the company that EVERYONE uses as the market standard stops caring about the market, they're going to lose credibility and that's bad for business.

I guess 2019 alone was a terrible year for this "aging" you mentioned, since that's when multiple of these 70 year old books "aged." I guess I was just coincidentally right on the cusp and 2020 was just The Year of Cream. 🤔

SERIOUSLY! 

[comicdonna]

8 minutes ago, SecretComicRoom said:

What part of books being selected by a competent presser as an excellent candidate are you having trouble understanding? We are NOT talking about Joe shmo who just picked up a pressing guide, t shirt press and some steal ball bearings here. We are talking about people who are basically experts at pressing here. Guys who have been submitting and working on cracking and pressing books for 10 years... every single day! 

PRO TIP... FROM AN ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL HERE- "aging" of paper does not happen to that degree while encapsulated. Sorry to burst ur pro tip bubble. 

 

Pro tip from an actual long time member here.  Lighten up Francis.  The Lions Den has professionally graded more books than you have seen.  

[SecretComicRoom]

7 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

Pro tip from an actual long time member here.  Lighten up Francis.  The Lions Den has professionally graded more books than you have seen.  

Well when you have guys not listening or not reading posts, it gets a lil irritating having to re explain or repeat. and I highly doubt that. 

[The Lions Den]

12 minutes ago, SecretComicRoom said:

What part of books being selected by a competent presser as an excellent candidate are you having trouble understanding? We are NOT talking about Joe shmo who just picked up a pressing guide, t shirt press and some steal ball bearings here. We are talking about people who are basically experts at pressing here. Guys who have been submitting and working on cracking and pressing books for 10 years... every single day! 

I understand completely. I'm just saying that the CPR game isn't foolproof (as this thread seems to confirm). But I certainly wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors...  

[SecretComicRoom]

8 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I understand completely. I'm just saying that the CPR game isn't foolproof (as this thread seems to confirm). But I certainly wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors...  

Im not convinced you do completely understand because the CPR game used to be able to take advantage of as a competent presser, hell even Joe Shmo could read a guide, buy a t shirt press and bump a book but clearly now it isn't foolproof.... but I do know certain peoples pressing game is. When you have an excellent presser, who pulls an excellent candidate, it should not really be a roll of the dice. 

Only one real example is being shown here when I know there are many competent passers going thru this same thing being described in this thread. Again, imo, there is something more going on here. 

And thank you for wishing me luck... seems like Ill need a lot of it around here. 
 

[The Lions Den]

11 minutes ago, comicdonna said:

Pro tip from an actual long time member here.  Lighten up Francis.  The Lions Den has professionally graded more books than you have seen.  

Thank you. I certainly appreciate your support!

I've also worked in customer service, and dealing with dissatisfied customers was a pretty common event. And of course I understand the disappointment people feel when things don't go as expected---I've been there myself a time or two. All I can offer in this situation is what I hope is good advice, but sometimes people need to vent their frustrations. So please, by all means...vent. 

[SecretComicRoom]

9 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Thank you. I certainly appreciate your support!

I've also worked in customer service, and dealing with dissatisfied customers was a pretty common event. And of course I understand the disappointment people feel when things don't go as expected---I've been there myself a time or two. All I can offer in this situation is what I hope is good advice, but sometimes people need to vent their frustrations. So please, by all means...vent. 

I am simply pleading the cases of people who do not wish to come forward for varying reasons while trying to set the record straight. I think you offer some good advice but I do not agree with things you say regarding CPR. When you have someone who always gets 1-5 grade bumps on CPR books over the course of 10 years, and all of the sudden its not happening.... multiplied by multiple people.

Imagine for 10 years you can bump books and you can count on ur single finger how many books have not bumped when you thought they were a candidate now all the sudden every order is coming back with no bumps and losing grades.... while you have improved your process. Come on now!

[The Lions Den]

Just now, SecretComicRoom said:

Im not convinced you do completely understand because the CPR game used to be able to take advantage of as a competent presser, hell even Joe Shmo could read a guide, buy a t shirt press and bump a book but clearly now it isn't foolproof.... but I do know certain peoples pressing game is. When you have an excellent presser, who pulls an excellent candidate, it should not really be a roll of the dice. 

Only one real example is being shown here when I know there are many competent passers going thru this same thing being described in this thread. Again, imo, there is something more going on here. 

And thank you for wishing me luck... seems like Ill need a lot of it around here. 
 

Of course. Please bear in mind that CGC and CCS employ some of the top experts in the world and they all handle hundreds of books every week. They know exactly what they're looking at and exactly what to look for. Even expertly pressed books can exhibit certain characteristics which may be viewed as flaws by eagle-eyed graders...