Batman 1 CGC 9.4!!!! 6 6

[lou_fine]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Love said:

And as much as I would like the transparency,  I'd settle for something almost as elusive...Mitch, a pic of one comic you own. Just one.  Any one. It's been 10 years, tease doesnt begin to describe you! 

Why, kind Sir..............................................ask and ye shall receive:  

 

Well, okay.......................................if not that oldie moldy picture, then how about this one here with his very own comic book cover appearance:  

Edited November 26, 2020 by lou_fine

[astrometric]

4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Not sure how the CGC grading works in terms of markings on the cover, as opposed to erasures.  

Just wondering if the erasure would have resulted in a bigger hit on the grading of the book, as opposed to leaving the original "S" marking on the book.   

From my own personal collector's point of view, I definitely would have prefer the original "S" marking as opposed to the intentionally made fugly erasure which just seems to stand out so much more. 

@Crowzilla  (I read this thread backwards to the beginning now) Sounds as if possibly this 9.2 which was previously a 9.0 (confirmed by @MasterChief) had yet another previous life as an 8.5? with the S not erased yet?

[tth2]

6 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

The complete grading history be disclosed by the sellers, auctions houses, and dealers....in fairness and transparency to all. This would be done by Keeping the serial number of the graded GA book the SAME and being able to look on line for its entire CGC grading history. This would make sure that the buyers were aware of where the book had been and putting some sort of realistic valuation on your bidding process. Thoughts?...can it be done?

My thoughts are that your post would've been welcome back in 2005.  The battle was fought, the battle was lost, and the horses left the barn a long time ago.

It seems like you've been living in this land during the last 15 years...

 

[tth2]

I do think Heritage deserves a huge amount of credit for providing an extensive database with scans and prices that is accessible to all, despite knowing that information about a book's history could impact its price.  The same can't be said for their competitors.  

[pemart1966]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Why, kind Sir..............................................ask and ye shall receive:  

 

Well, okay.......................................if not that oldie moldy picture, then how about this one here with his very own comic book cover appearance:  

1st photo doesn't count - he said recently that he doesn't own that book anymore - unless he recently re-acquired it    PS is the whereabouts and slabbed status of this book currently known?  I think that he discussed it a while ago but I'll be darned if I remember  (long in the tooth; short on the memory)

2nd photo - rare Lev Gleason Ash Can?  

[G.A.tor]

2 hours ago, astrometric said:

@Crowzilla  (I read this thread backwards to the beginning now) Sounds as if possibly this 9.2 which was previously a 9.0 (confirmed by @MasterChief) had yet another previous life as an 8.5? with the S not erased yet?

Yes. When it was first auctioned (by clink iirc) it was a Cgc 8.5 and the “s” was still there

[batman_fan]

1 minute ago, G.A.tor said:

Yes. When it was first auctioned (by clink iirc) it was a Cgc 8.5 and the “s” was still there

I sure wish CGC had noted something like this as "Restored Slight Amateur" so people quit doing it.  In this case, the person that erased the "S" definitely degraded the books appearance in their attempt tom "restore" it.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

I do think Heritage deserves a huge amount of credit for providing an extensive database with scans and prices that is accessible to all, despite knowing that information about a book's history could impact its price.  The same can't be said for their competitors.  

Unfortunately for all parties involved (except for CL themselves), this is most definitely the case with books auctioned off through the CL website.  

Not so much the case with CC though since their auction archives goes back to 2011 (and possibly even earlier) when I first started to take serious notice of them with the release of their quasi-pedigree Atlantic City books that summer. 

The only problem with their archives is that you usually have to input the exact name correctly or you could also end up with pulling titles with almost similar names.

Edited November 27, 2020 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

9 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

The complete grading history be disclosed by the sellers, auctions houses, and dealers....in fairness and transparency to all. This would be done by Keeping the serial number of the graded GA book the SAME and being able to look on line for its entire CGC grading history. This would make sure that the buyers were aware of where the book had been and putting some sort of realistic valuation on your bidding process. Thoughts?...can it be done?

My thoughts are that your post would've been welcome back in 2005.  The battle was fought, the battle was lost, and the horses left the barn a long time ago.

It seems like you've been living in this land during the last 15 years...

 

Yes and sadly, the little pony has definitely left the barn a long long time ago.  

Actually, my idea at the time which I was actually silly enough to post on these very boards here was to have all professional restorers certified in order to conduct their trade.  In addition, as part of their annual certification requirements, they they would then have to imprint some type of small invisible (to the naked eye) digitized code on the last interior page identifying the type of work that had been done on the book.  

Yes, those were defintely still the innocent days of wine and roses, when in reality all everybody really wanted was to be able to maximize the grade of their books and then foist them into an unsuspecting marketplace without any disclosure at all, in order to maximize the amount of dollars going into their pocket.    

[lou_fine]

44 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

3 hours ago, astrometric said:

@Crowzilla  (I read this thread backwards to the beginning now) Sounds as if possibly this 9.2 which was previously a 9.0 (confirmed by @MasterChief) had yet another previous life as an 8.5? with the S not erased yet?

Yes. When it was first auctioned (by clink iirc) it was a Cgc 8.5 and the “s” was still there

Actually, now that I think about it, that erased "S" mark looks very familiar to me. 

Any idea if this particular copy is part of that early GA collection of very high grade books that had the tell tale black greased pencil "S" mark on their front covers? 

I remember some of these from the early Mystery Men and Wonderworld Fox books.  In particular, the one that comes to mind was a uber HG copy of Wonderworld 8 which Verzyl had behind his counter at one of the SD Con's back in the mid-90's.  I remember asking him about the book and then being quoted what I thought was a ridicously high price at the time and then John refusing to go down even a single dollar because of its almost pedigree like quality and condition.     

[Mr bla bla]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Why, kind Sir..............................................ask and ye shall receive:  

 

Well, okay.......................................if not that oldie moldy picture, then how about this one here with his very own comic book cover appearance:  

OMG

that Action looks 9.0 ish 🤑

[LDarkseid1]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Actually, now that I think about it, that erased "S" mark looks very familiar to me. 

Any idea if this particular copy is part of that early GA collection of very high grade books that had the tell tale black greased pencil "S" mark on their front covers? 

I remember some of these from the early Mystery Men and Wonderworld Fox books.  In particular, the one that comes to mind was a uber HG copy of Wonderworld 8 which Verzyl had behind his counter at one of the SD Con's back in the mid-90's.  I remember asking him about the book and then being quoted what I thought was a ridicously high price at the time and then John refusing to go down even a single dollar because of its almost pedigree like quality and condition.     

Bet you’re wishing you bought it now though right? 😁

Edited November 27, 2020 by LDarkseid1

[Bronty]

12 hours ago, tth2 said:

I do think Heritage deserves a huge amount of credit for providing an extensive database with scans and prices that is accessible to all, despite knowing that information about a book's history could impact its price.  The same can't be said for their competitors.  

Absolutely, although I don’t think that’s altruistic .   I think I recall reading that it was a condition of some past legal settlement (although I don’t recall for sure).    Regardless, it’s welcome.   

Edited November 27, 2020 by Bronty

[Aman619]

Just a thought but, as disappointing as the reaction feels to this 9.4 being an upgrade (double upgrade?) and not a new book to the census... in reality, the only ones affected by this are the owners of the other 9.0s.  It’s just a jockeying for position at the top. (while waiting for the DA copy to join the census) .. whoever owned the 9.2, the previous top copy by pressing his 9.0 to the top merely got shoved back to 2nd best.  Everyone with an 8.5 or lower has the same ranking as before.  Only the number on the label of the top copy has changed.  And the perceived scarcity of HG copies is the same now for Batman 1 as it was, unlike many books with dozens of HG copies surfacing after 2 decades of slabbing proving that few comics are really scarce at all. 

‘in this comics world we live in, where most play the game, seems fair that each copy be allowed to compete at its highest level. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Only they get to die all the way to the bank. Ka Ching.   I’m just saying.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Aman619

[Chicago Boy]

17 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Why, kind Sir..............................................ask and ye shall receive:  

Still have this action 1 ?  Graded ?  What else could a person buy for 2k in 1973 ?  A car ??

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Chicago Boy

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Aman619 said:

‘in this comics world we live in, where most play the game, seems fair that each copy be allowed to compete at its highest level. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Only they get to die all the way to the bank. Ka Ching.   I’m just saying.

Yet, we look with utter disdain at those who used to conduct these nefarious practices in their supposedly darkened basements back in what Borock called the bad bad old days of the Wild Wild West.    

Instead, nowadays, we bowed down in front of them and kiss their feet while we throw money their way just so they can maximize the potential of our books in every way imaginable as long as it is not detectable and we can hopefully foist them onto an unsuspecting marketplace without any disclosure at all.     

Edited November 27, 2020 by lou_fine

[LDarkseid1]

[fishbone]

18 hours ago, Dr. Love said:

I understand Steve Eichenbaum is willing to discuss this, waiting on your call.

And as much as I would like the transparency,  I'd settle for something almost as elusive...Mitch, a pic of one comic you own. Just one.  Any one. It's been 10 years, tease doesnt begin to describe you! 

Yeah, OK. Good luck with that. He won't even respond to this, never does. He will remain a mystery forever , "Mannup"  he will not.

[Mmehdy]

51 minutes ago, fishbone said:

Yeah, OK. Good luck with that. He won't even respond to this, never does. He will remain a mystery forever , "Mannup"  he will not.

No mystery here...if you had read some of my early posts, I  am still the collector I was back in the early 60's/70's and we never showed out hand and I mean never. Early on if a dealer or other collector knew you needed the book, the price was double, second early on a number of great collections were stolen and of course none of that has been discussed here on the board it has been lost to the tears of the many collectors of the past...look into the SF comic books which Nick bought...he came to the Berkley comic convention in ...1972 or 3 showed off the big stack of timely's he had just paid for $1 a piece for and they were amazing condition wise..I saw the entire stack, as did others..where did showing off get him?..stolen thats where..Hello. Old school and I am proud of that collectors had a code...of conduct....make that survival...besides the whole world laughing and being against us and calling us "dorks" we prevailed to a point in 2020 that nobody back then would believe. Like it or not the creation of the CGC will forever go down in history keeping GA/SA comic book collecting relevant forever. Your version of comic book collecting and mine are polar opposites..yes I can adapt, slowly but you have to lived it..been there...the excitement...not for $$$ but for the quest and finding and reading GA material which we thought had been lost forever. It was and will ever be to me all about the GA comic book itself.

 I cannot tell you how many times everybody spoke about the END or doom, or that prices have peaked, there was a man by the name of Bruce Hamilton..he helped create the CGC and later became disenchanted with it and he had the biggest safe that I had ever seen for his collectables...he was a pioneer collector who also lived by the early collectors code of slience. Men of honor...yes, there was less money on the table back then...still it was who you were that counted back then, not what you owned.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Mmehdy

[MasterChief]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:21 PM, lou_fine said:

The only question which I have is that for the life of me, I simply can't figure out which one of these scans here would be more truly reflective of the book's real colors?

I believe the 9.0 image is the accurate representation. Digitally it portrays a more realistic rendering of the book, its colors, and the apparent defects of the cover.

The 9.4 front and back cover images are aesthetically pleasing. No doubt about that. The book looks amazing, like it just rolled off a 1940 printing press. The deep reds, blacks, and vibrant yellows of the front cover, and the blinding whites of the back cover are key to this interpretation. However, these scans display an almost (too) prefect 80-year-old four color comic book. The imagery looks great for advertising purposes, but in my opinion these digital renderings appear to be misleading and misrepresent the subject.

Below is a side-by-side photo manipulation comparison of the 9.0 copy. The before image on the left has several callouts highlighting a few defects, to include soiling/smudges, a dust shadow running horizontally along the bottom left edge, and a small, faint dust shadow running vertically along the lower right edge for a short distance. The after image on the right was adjusted slightly using a "one step photo fix" enhancement. This photo manipulation technique, which took just a click of a button, added color saturation, brightness, and focus which positively improved the yellows, reds, and blacks thereby creating an enhanced visual. The effect subdued or masked the aforementioned defects and rendered a more pleasing book appearance with much better eye appeal.

It's important to note that the 9.0 image is a degraded image with reduced pixels resulting in loss of quality. It appears to have been resized and optimized (compressed) from an original scan in order to reduce the file size for storage and transmission. There is only so much digital enhancement that can be done to it before it appears unnatural and overtly manipulated.

Having said that, I am not suggesting that Heritage intentionally manipulated the 9.4 images post original scanning, as Dupcak was notorious for doing. What I am saying, in my estimation, is that the scanner settings used for this subject, and many others that have been offered as evidence by auction winners over the course of several years, are set to induce enhanced color and automatically adjust saturation to make colors in the image appear more pure and vivid. Nonetheless, one can clearly see that the application of photo fixing techniques, either before or post scanning, can render comparable results apparent in the 9.4 imagery.

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by MasterChief
typo