Big Boy pants discussion (post'em if you got'em) 1 1

[Cat-Man_America]

Less familiar publisher's Big Boy pants books often include issues that stand out because of interesting art, unique origin(s), story theme or rarity.  For instance, Hillman debuted Airboy in Air Fighters Comics #2, after Air Fighters #1 bombed (no pun intended) in it's debut from a lackluster line-up and less than inspiring art.  What Air Fighters #2 had going for it was an incredibly strong redesign with a sensational characters and inarguably gory war cover credited to Charles Biro below..

.

Charles Biro

While Hillman didn't produce a lot of books tailored for Big Boy pants there are a couple of sleepers that hold promise later in the run such as the Heap origin and epic 2-part rats story.  The biggest problem with assessing greatness of Hillman's comics is the use of a volume based numbering system which turned over annually.  This use of a numbering that re-sets periodically often frustrates collectors.

Moving along to Temerson (Holyoke/Continental) the Cat-Man series has several Big Boy books within it's 32 issue run mostly due to the high calibre of art this publisher hired and nearly presented on both exteriors and interiors along with the unique concept of a young female sidekick named Kitten mentored by the mature male lead.  Interestingly, Kitten matured through her teens into adulthood as the series developed. Well regarded artists contributing cover art to this series include Charles Quinlan, Rudy Palais, Alex Schomburg and LB Cole.  The uniqueness and relative scarcity of this line contribute to it's collecting popularity as a tough Big Boy run.  Here are several examples of stand-out books that require big boy pants just to get on the playground...

Charles Quinlan

Alex Schomburg

LB Cole

Some smaller publishers tend to get overlooked even with fairly popular character line-ups and outstanding art.  One such publisher was Crestwood, publisher of PRIZE Comics.  Among the more noteworthy series attributable to this publisher are  Briefer's Frankenstein, Young Romance (first romance title) Fighting American (Captain America pastiche) and Black Magic, the latter three series under Joe Simon and Jack Kirby's helmsmanship.  PRIZE introduced two major characters, Frankenstein and The Green Lama, that would achieve solo titles at some point either under Crestwood or another publisher.  Prize Comics, Crestwood's flagship title, often sported excellent cover and interior art and a good range of costumed characters during the war years usually led by The Black Owl.  Jack Binder's covers are some of the best and include this bad boy (good luck finding pants for this classic Big Boy in the census closet)...

Jack Binder

 

[Mmehdy]

AF#2 one of my ALL time favorite GA covers....great stuff

[pemart1966]

Feel free to share your opinions about this group of Big Boy pants books or tailor your own.

OK Cat-Man_America, I'll do just that:

Daredevil - how in the world did Lev Gleason blow it with this character???  He had the look; the costume; the arch villain (albeit only one); the artists - he had it all!  He was not undone by a super villain but by a bunch of kids!  Oh...the shame  

It seems as if he just petered out.  I don't get it - everything was there to have made this character a true Golden Age classic.  Is there a story behind this?

Red Raven - great cover - lousy story and lousy art.  That coupled with the Superman thing - I'm not surprised that this character lasted but one issue.

This book was high on lots of lists (along with Tough Kids Squad) years ago but you seldom hear either mentioned when it comes to anyone's top ten nowadays.  It seems that neither book has kept pace with the big boy pack - maybe in super high grade they have.  

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by pemart1966

[waaaghboss]

On 12/14/2020 at 9:31 AM, comicdonna said:

This is from Brent's site (QualityComix)

If you are holding a Human Torch Comics #2 in your hand right now you are actually holding a Human Torch Comics #1. Here's how it works. In August 1940 Timely hit the newsstands with Red Raven Comics #1, a winged "super-man" dressed in red. Yeah, not the best idea since there was already a Superman without bizarre bright red wings that could fly, and bend steel and well you get the picture. So with issue number two they simply changed the name of the book and took the newly popular Human Torch and gave him his own adventures. He would co-star with Sub-mariner again in this new issue as he had previously in Marvel Mystery Comics. 

Was siupes flying by 1940?

[waaaghboss]

On 12/14/2020 at 11:04 AM, comicginger1789 said:

As someone who only has a dozen or so Golden Age books in the PC, am I even allowed to be here?!!?!

And no none of them are "big boys" or girls for that matter...

You are, but just watch from a distance.   There are guys here that could demolish our tiny collections with a single book

[comicdonna]

3 minutes ago, waaaghboss said:

Was siupes flying by 1940?

I think it was Superman #10 1941 in comics.  

[Mmehdy]

2 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

Feel free to share your opinions about this group of Big Boy pants books or tailor your own.

OK Cat-Man_America, I'll do just that:

Daredevil - how in the world did Lev Gleason blow it with this character???  He had the look; the costume; the arch villain (albeit only one); the artists - he had it all!  He was not undone by a super villain but by a bunch of kids!  Oh...the shame  

It seems as if he just petered out.  I don't get it - everything was there to have made this character a true Golden Age classic.  Is there a story behind this?

Red Raven - great cover - lousy story and lousy art.  That coupled with the Superman thing - I'm not surprised that this character lasted but one issue.

This book was high on lots of lists (along with Tough Kids Squad) years ago but you seldom hear either mentioned when it comes to anyone's top ten nowadays.  It seems that neither book has kept pace with the big boy pack - maybe in super high grade they have.  

 

agree on Red Revan 1...in the early 1970's it was a big book along with Daring Mystery #1....I preferred Daring #1 cover...what a great book...Daredevil early issues and covers were great with SS#6 and DD V Hitler....too bad it just did not play out great...

[Cat-Man_America]

9 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

Feel free to share your opinions about this group of Big Boy pants books or tailor your own.

OK Cat-Man_America, I'll do just that:

Daredevil - how in the world did Lev Gleason blow it with this character???  He had the look; the costume; the arch villain (albeit only one); the artists - he had it all!  He was not undone by a super villain but by a bunch of kids!  Oh...the shame  

It seems as if he just petered out.  I don't get it - everything was there to have made this character a true Golden Age classic.  Is there a story behind this?

Red Raven - great cover - lousy story and lousy art.  That coupled with the Superman thing - I'm not surprised that this character lasted but one issue.

This book was high on lots of lists (along with Tough Kids Squad) years ago but you seldom hear either mentioned when it comes to anyone's top ten nowadays.  It seems that neither book has kept pace with the big boy pack - maybe in super high grade they have.  

 

Agree with you that Lev Gleason kinda blew it for Daredevil fans when he hired Charles Biro and Bob Woods to produce the s/t magazine on a monthly basis.  They ran with it ...churning out an issue every month as promised and hitting strong sales numbers.  It was a challenge, but they achieved it... and Gleason rewarded them with full editorship and free reign over the magazine.  At which point they started experimenting, adding the Little Wise Guys, a letters page for fans and making story content more important than the art or the title character.  Eventually Biro & Woods killed off the Daredevil's greatest villain, the Claw, then gradually the hero stepped back and hung up his costume.  Apparently this worked for a lot of kids, because Daredevil Comics sold well in the late 40's and 50's.  Eventually the series leading costumed character was moth-balled, reduced to a supporting role, then disappeared altogether, the Little Wise Guys taking over the comic!

But to most fans of the comic and serious collectors, ...the original Daredevil is da-bomb!  

OTOH, I'm inclined to disagree about Red Raven ...and not just because of I'm fond of the book and have owned a nice copy for years.  I just don't see the Superman connection.  Even Fawcett's Captain Marvel bears more similarity to Superman by design, strength & costume, if not origin.  And the art, ...well, RR is an early teaming of S&K.  Is Jack Kirby's work on early Cap better? Oh yeah! But that was over half a year away.  As charming as it is, Joe Shuster's art in early Superman seems almost primitive by comparison.  Also, while Red Raven isn't Cap, it's still a top notch early example of the team that would would have a major impact on the comics industry.  

Conversely, it's difficult believing that the Tough Kid Squad was ever serious competition with RR for fan attention.  The TKS is a second tier Young Allies, not by S&K.  There are other, arguably better realized kid team-ups by S&K and others.  As for scarcity and speculative collector values, if gauging representation by census numbers, there are 31 Universal label TKS Comics and only 19 unrestored RR.  Finally, Red Raven has wings! Even the GA Angel ...which Martin Goodman kept aloft for years... could only muster a mustache!  With that, I will rest my case or rest on my laurels, whichever comes first.   

Note: I really must cut back on the caffeine or figure out how to balance it all out with ale! 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Cat-Man_America

[pemart1966]

16 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

Agree with you that Lev Gleason blew it for Daredevil fans when he hired Charles Biro and Bob Woods to produce the s/t magazine on a monthly basis.  They ran with it ...churning out an issue every month as promised on the title and hitting a strong sales number.  It was a challenge, but they achieved it... and Gleason rewarded them with full editorship and free reign over the magazine.  At which point they started experimenting, adding the Little Wise Guys, a letters page for fans and making story content more important than the art or the title character.  Eventually Biro & Woods killed off the Daredevil's greatest villain, the Claw, then gradually the hero stepped back and hung up his costume.  Apparently this worked for a lot of kids, because Daredevil Comics sold well in the late 40's and 50's in spite of the series leading character being moth-balled, reduced to a support role, then disappearing, and the Little Wise Guys taking over the comic!

But to most fans of the comic and serious collectors, ...the original Daredevil is da-bomb!  

OTOH, my inclination is to disagree about Red Raven ...and not just because of I've owned the Billy Wright copy for years.  For one thing there's no clear Superman connection.  Even Fawcett's Captain Marvel bears more similarity to Superman than RR by design, if not origin.  And the art, ...well, RR is a very early teaming of S&K.  Is Jack Kirby's work on early Cap better? Oh yeah! But that was over half a year away, ...and let's not even get into Joe Shuster's early work on Superman.  In spite of the fact that Red Raven isn't Cap, it's still a top notch example of the team that would change the comics industry.  

Conversely, the Tough Kid Squad was never really serious competition with RR for fan attention.  The TKS is a second tier kid's team book; it isn't even by S&K.  There are other, better, kid team books by S&K.  As for scarcity and collector values, which book is more represented in unrestored census numbers? There are 31 Universal label TKS Comics and 19 unrestored RR.  Furthermore, Red Raven has wings! Even the GA Angel ...which Martin Goodman kept aloft for years... could only muster a mustache (go figure).  On that, I rest my case.   

Note: I really must cut back on the caffeine or figure out how to balance it all out with ale! 

 

Well, the Angel DID have wings - on the front of his uniform 

[pemart1966]

3 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

agree on Red Revan 1...in the early 1970's it was a big book along with Daring Mystery #1....I preferred Daring #1 cover...what a great book...Daredevil early issues and covers were great with SS#6 and DD V Hitler....too bad it just did not play out great...

Thanks for jogging my memory.  I'd forgotten about Daring Mystery Comics.  

Don't know about the book but I agree, the cover to #1 is spectacular.  Great situation and great perspective.  I love that mace - just ready to do some serious damage...

[lou_fine]

On 12/12/2020 at 9:16 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

This thread is NOT about Big Boy hamburgers, obesity or fast food.  There's no cheese here!

Boy oh boy, you sure take all the fun out of it since I thought for sure you was talking about this Big Boy book here:  

[Cat-Man_America]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Boy oh boy, you sure take all the fun out of it since I thought for sure you was talking about this Big Boy book here:  

At least that Big Boy can claim to be a direct descendent of Sub-Mariner! 

[lou_fine]

On 12/12/2020 at 9:16 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

For my third publisher I'll add a Quality book, the first issue of HIT Comics, sporting a Lou Fine cover...

Although generally undervalued, Quality's Big Boys include HIT Comics #5 and National Comics #7 (also Lou Fine covers).

A solid pick from you here as I feel the early portion of the Hit run featured some absolutely gorgeous covers that seems to be a bit overlooked and undervalued as compared to some of the more recent hot covers that have hit the marketplace.  

Hit 1 is definitely no exception as it features the usual well detailed artwork that Fine is so well known for, along with some nice bright covers that makes the book really stand out if you are ever lucky enough to be able hit upon a HG copy of this relatively HTF book.  

 

[lou_fine]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:41 PM, IngelsFan said:

Mystery Men Comics 7, the first Blue Beetle cover:

A very astute and perfect selection here out of the early Mystery Men run as this is one of the rarest of the early MM books with only 11 Universal copies graded to date.  Only the Mystery Men 10 and 11 comes close to this copy here in terms of rarity with 12 and 11 Universal copies graded respectively.  

What makes this book even more special is that it doesn't seem to exist in high grade as the Church copy of this book here sits as the highest graded copy, but at only a CGC 8.0 VF condition grade with the next highest graded being only a VG 4.0 copy.  Yet all of the other early and more available Church MM books have been graded into the 9's with the only other 2 exceptions being the much later Mystery Men 20 in CGC 8.5 and Mystery Men 27 in CGC 8.0.  

I guess only time will tell, but it will be interesting to see if a true HG copy of this book ever makes its way into the marketplace.   Especially since the other contender for this early time period would have been the Larson, but that copy of MM7 would only be a Qualified as it is apparently listed with having the coupon clipped out of the back cover.    

Edited December 20, 2020 by lou_fine

[circumstances]

First appearance Doctor Fate. Fourth appearance Spectre.

Big Boy Pants? Yay? Nay? Borderline? Not even close?

 

 

[RareHighGrade]

13 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I guess only time will tell, but it will be interesting to see if a true HG copy of this book ever makes its way into the marketplace.   Especially since the other contender for this early time period would have been the Larson, but that copy of MM7 would only be a Qualified as it is apparently listed with having the coupon clipped out of the back cover.    

How about the Allentown?  Does anyone know the condition of that copy?

Edited December 20, 2020 by RareHighGrade

[Local Net Plus, LLC]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:03 PM, circumstances said:

I don't think there's a lack of love for this book, but it isn't the #52 or #53.

 

Definitely my favorite cover.  I just sent my copy in for grading last week.  

[Robot Man]

2 hours ago, circumstances said:

First appearance Doctor Fate. Fourth appearance Spectre.

Big Boy Pants? Yay? Nay? Borderline? Not even close?

 

 

Most everything I really want anymore would be considered “big boy pants”. I’m back to “training pants”...

Awsome book! Another one I’ve never owned and probably won’t.

Have to be content with my reprint books on More Fun’s at this point. 

[circumstances]

33 minutes ago, Local Net Plus, LLC said:

Definitely my favorite cover.  I just sent my copy in for grading last week.  

Mine too!

[circumstances]

23 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

Most everything I really want anymore would be considered “big boy pants”. I’m back to “training pants”...

Awsome book! Another one I’ve never owned and probably won’t.

Have to be content with my reprint books on More Fun’s at this point. 

Thanks!

Training pants > depends!