BeatleBlueCat DEFRAUDING BUYERS with Massive SHILL BIDDING and Same old "Buy CGC graded 7.5, crack and sell as raw "NM" scam 10 10

[shadroch]

I'd concentrate on any restored books he might be cracking out and selling as unrestored. 

Or his ripping off old ladies to finance his selling inventory. 

Oops, never mind. I thought we were talking about Pedigree. My bad.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

6 minutes ago, shadroch said:

I'd concentrate on any restored books he might be cracking out and selling as unrestored. 

Or his ripping off old ladies to finance his selling inventory. 

Oops, never mind. I thought we were talking about Pedigree. My bad.

 

Obfuscation?

[manetteska]

54 minutes ago, shadroch said:

1 hour ago, manetteska said:

Why are you so sad about a member calling out a bad seller? This goes beyond over-grading yet you keep sliding that in.

The thrill is gone, move on with some of the credibility you built up over the years.

Claiming people are engaged in criminal activity is a very serious matter.  Suggesting the seller is going to to be hauled off in handcuffs is both dumb and possibly actionable in itself.

So you're concerned for his welfare now? Your opinion on this matter is taking several interesting twists and turns.

How about you sit back, soak in some rays, enjoy retirement, and let him handle this.

[shadroch]

28 minutes ago, manetteska said:

So you're concerned for his welfare now? Your opinion on this matter is taking several interesting twists and turns.

How about you sit back, soak in some rays, enjoy retirement, and let him handle this.

That's just what I'm doing. Sitting on the veranda, tri-tip in the smoker, watching the villagers sharpen their pitchforks. 

I'll revist this in six weeks, where BBC will still be selling his wares and no one will have been arrested. But do carry on. The world can always use more comedy. 

As Brian Hibbs says, tilting at windmills can be fun.

Edited December 21, 2020 by shadroch

[october]

6 minutes ago, shadroch said:

That's just what I'm doing. Sitting on the veranda, tri-tip in the smoker, watching the villagers sharpen their pitchforks. 

I'll revist this in six weeks, where BBC will still be selling his wares and no one will have been arrested. But do carry on. The world can always use more comedy. 

As Brian Hibbs says, tilting at windmills can be fun.

There is utility in calling out bad actors. He won't be arrested and he won't stop selling....who cares? We do what we are able, and I guarantee some potential buyers will see this at a minimum.

An imperfect solution is better than shrugging your shoulders and being cynical about everything. Should we delete the probation list while we are at it? Pretty sure some of those people deal via PM. Guess that makes it pointless. 

[WPPJames]

2 hours ago, Poekaymon said:

"No one will do anything anyway" isn't really a good excuse to sit idle.  You've wasted countless hours accumulating your 44,000 posts, which, if anything, has been punitive for the rest of us.  Don't hassle people for spending their time trying to call out clear cheats.

That seems *way* overly harsh. I'm not as active, obviously, as any of you guys with your 15k+ posts. Maybe I'm missing something? But why can't a person have an opposing opinion? And he does make some good points. No one is going to go after a shill bidder or someone who over grades. Or cracks out books and lists them at a higher grade. This thread will probably make little difference in Mr. Beatle's business practices. But if it helps even a few, and I think it already has, then its worth the effort some of you guys have put forth. Hell, if it even makes the guy's day a tab bit less rosy it was worth it.

Also, I value having people like shadroch make their opinions known on all kinds of different forums. Once you get 20 people stating their agreement on something the value kinda gets lost afterwards. At that point you get more value from the lone dissenter even if you don't agree with him/her. It's way too easy for a forum (or anything, corporate businesses / departments perfect example) of sometimes getting stuck in a kind of herd mentality without realizing it. 

And for the record herd mentality is not the same thing as herd immunity.

[shadroch]

 

 

17 minutes ago, shadroch said:

That's just what I'm doing. Sitting on the veranda, tri-tip in the smoker, watching the villagers sharpen their pitchforks. 

I'll revist this in six weeks, where BBC will still be selling his wares and no one will have been arrested. But do carry on. The world can always use more comedy. 

Calling out bad actors is a good thing. Where it goes bad is suggesting people who crack CGC books and offer them at higher grades are committing a crime, or that people who shill their auctions are going to be hauled out of their beds and arrested. Over the top rhetoric helps nothing. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

1 minute ago, WPPJames said:

That seems *way* overly harsh. I'm not as active, obviously, as any of you guys with your 15k+ posts. Maybe I'm missing something? But why can't a person have an opposing opinion? And he does make some good points. No one is going to go after a shill bidder or someone who over grades. Or cracks out books and lists them at a higher grade. This thread will probably make little difference in Mr. Beatle's business practices. But if it helps even a few, and I think it already has, then its worth the effort some of you guys have put forth. Hell, if it even makes the guy's day a tab bit less rosy it was worth it.

Also, I value having people like shadroch make their opinions known on all kinds of different forums. Once you get 20 people stating their agreement on something the value kinda gets lost afterwards. At that point you get more value from the lone dissenter even if you don't agree with him/her. It's way too easy for a forum (or anything, corporate businesses / departments perfect example) of sometimes getting stuck in a kind of herd mentality without realizing it. 

And for the record herd mentality is not the same thing as herd immunity.

His opposing opinion is loaded with snark and condescension. 

[october]

4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

 

Calling out bad actors is a good thing. Where it goes bad is suggesting people who crack CGC books and offer them at higher grades are committing a crime, or that people who shill their auctions are going to be hauled out of their beds and arrested. Over the top rhetoric helps nothing. 

I agree with all of that, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater or twist ourselves into rhetorical knots defending someone who, frankly, does not appear to deserve it. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by october

[shadroch]

1 minute ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

His opposing opinion is loaded with snark and condescension. 

If having to explain that there is no crime in disagreeing with the grade CGC gives a book is condescending, I'm guilty. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Just now, shadroch said:

If having to explain that there is no crime in disagreeing with the grade CGC gives a book is condescending, I'm guilty. 

It’s more than that, and you know it.   Do you and the OP have some kind of board history?  He’s gone out of his way to state that he respects your opinion, and yet you continue to act like a muppet.

[WPPJames]

11 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

His opposing opinion is loaded with snark and condescension. 

Ok then. I guess I missed that. I haven't read every post in this now 300 page thread. And have no prior history with shad. Just seems like his "snark and condescension (sic)" is being met with a lot of anger and hostility. And what the hell is a muppet? I thought it was a Jim Henson creation.

[shadroch]

Is " acting like a muppet" some kool new phrase us retirees don't get?

My nickname in Rugby was Gonzo, so perhaps you have a point.

To quote a famous philosofizer: I'm not on anyones side, because no one is entirely on my side. 

My original point was that there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the grade CGC gives a book, and it is not a criminal violation to call a book that CGC graded a 7.5 a 9.0, nor is it wrong to call a 7.5 CGC book a 6.0 if thats what you think it is. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by shadroch

[WPPJames]

4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Is " acting like a muppet" some kool new phrase us retirees don't get?

Don't have to be a retiree to not get some of the "new" stuff. Wife and I were at a brewery yesterday and wanted to order some food. Due to COVID no menus. So you have to scan the bar code on the table to see it. We were initially like deer in headlights. But eventually got it all worked out. And the chicken wings were worth the effort.

[THE_BEYONDER]

8 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Is " acting like a muppet" some kool new phrase us retirees don't get?

British slang for insufficiently_thoughtful_person 

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

It’s 

About

The

Shilling 

Yes. The shilling is a crime except in Texas, and like many others who have broken the law by shilling their auctions, BeatleBlueCat can be "hauled in" for it. It's not a claim. It's fact. Puffery and scumbaggery are not crimes. The leisure police handle the general scumbaggery, dial 912.. The criminal authorities handle real crimes with penal codes, like shilling. 

Also, 699 shill bids in one month, over and over again, is a systematically ongoing practice of defrauding buyers by inflating their protection bids. That's what he does. This is not a one or two time casual thing with BBC. 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, shadroch said:

Because he is way over the top. Claiming the seller is about to be arrested is stupid and counter-productive. Dupchek has been selling restored books on ebay for years, but we are supposed to believe a guy cracking CGC books and selling them at higher grades is going to be prosecuted. 

 

For the seventh time, The shilling is illegal. Except in Texas. It is a crime. 

Yes, shill bidding is an officially illegal practice. ... Yet, shill bidding can go to the federal level, so then: Additionally, you can be charged under 18 U.S. Code Section 1343 for wire fraud. 

Do you doubt the existence and application of this code? 

Edited December 21, 2020 by James J Johnson

[BigLeagueCHEW]

2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Yes. The shilling is a crime except in Texas, and like many others who have broken the law by shilling their auctions, BeatleBlueCat can be "hauled in" for it. It's not a claim. It's fact. Puffery and scumbaggery are not crimes. The leisure police handle the general scumbaggery, dial 912.. The criminal authorities handle real crimes with penal codes, like shilling. 

Also, 699 shill bids in one month, over and over again, is a systematically ongoing practice of defrauding buyers by inflating their protection bids. That's what he does. This is not a one or two time casual thing with BBC. 

If you put your location as a city of TX, and Shill away, are you breaking the law?

What if you Shill from a remote session on a site hosted in TX, is it still a crime as well?

I know it is a Shilly question to ask.

[WPPJames]

3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

The shilling is a crime except in Texas

To hopefully lighten the mood just a tad... I lived almost my entire life in small town TX. And very little is illegal there. Unless you miss church on Sunday or the high school football game on Friday night. If you miss the game on Friday night you can atone for it on Sunday at church if you have a good excuse. Miss church and you have to wait until the next Friday night football game to work it out with your friends and neighbors.