The Great Collectibles Bubble: Waiting To Pop? 1 1

[Darkowl]

5 hours ago, oldmilwaukee6er said:

Only 3 installments of $33.32! Wait, what? 

Even comic hoodies be bubblin' 

"A remarkable value" 

[the blob]

6 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Here is what everyone should be worried about:

A lot of us whose jobs are not impacted by the pandemic now have excess money because we have been forced to forego a lot of discretionary spending.  I'm talking vacations, nice restaurants, going to sporting events, movies, etc.  So we suddenly find ourselves bored and with extra cash.  What do you do?  You buy things you can enjoy in your home that make you happy, one of which is collectables.  

So what's going to happen when the world re-opens and we can all travel again?  

Me, I'm taking some trips.  

Think about it.

I won't be travelling until 2022. This is a stay at home summer. Luckily I live near the beach. I am spending $3K on a beach club, sure, but I would have spent at least that much on camp for the 9 year old.

But yeah, it could very well be $2-6K of travel money per affluent collector has gone to comics, although I'd think a lot of our spouses would have something to say about that.

[the blob]

5 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Agree 100%! I was unphased as well other than the losing value overnight thingy. I planned on living at the house. Which I did and still am. Now the thing is grossly overvalued. So that means another bubble. Rentals are hard to find around here. Expensive and stingy when they are found.

I want cool iconic books too but even if I had twenty gees, I wouldn't spend it on a 9.6 IH 181. 9.0 would be satisfactory. I have learned not to be greedy. For some reason, my like can turn into a Tex Avery "Droopy" cartoon suddenly and for no particular reason. So many books I could buy for $20k. I couldn't confine myself to just the one book. I would "diversify". LOL!

$20K for an IH 181 is a deal compared to what a banana taped to a wall goes for.

[the blob]

5 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Do any serious collectors have one of these? I wouldn't be caught dead in one myself. I always looked upon skull, dream catcher and wolfie t-shirts as sort of embarrassing. I mean yeah if you like that, it's fine. Just a little too loud for me, I guess. Plus, I don't want to be a walking billboard for Coke, Pepsi, Doritos or anything that males money for someone else.

A friend gave me a bunch of clothing with his company logo emblazoned across the front. I like the guy but I wear my own company shirt. I don't need people coming up to me asking for HIS business card, you know?

I just think that a lot of people around me will see that and think i am equating flags and skulls and think I'm a QAnoner or something. My wife has bought me super hero themed / dad themed shirts and stuff like that. "The Incredible Dad" (with a pciture of the hulk). I wear them.

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, Darkowl said:

The peer pressure is definitely real.

My girlfriend (at the time) invited me to go to some investing meeting that some of her friends were putting on, and after the presentation was over, they asked me if I wanted in. I told them that I couldn't afford to invest at the time, and their response was, "You can't afford not to invest in this!". 

Peer pressure at its finest! 

Yes! So what are the options then? "Hang on a sec. I'm just gonna go rob a bank." Money is never an object if we don't have any.

My accountant is also a financial advisor. Every year at tax time, she would turn our attention to investing. "WOMAN! You just DID our taxes!" LOL! I told her I buy comic books in that I felt they were solid. They ARE but again. Can't buy a Bat 1 or IH 181. And although I COULD sell an IH 181, I could never sell a Bat 1.

And so, I enjoy life instead. The way I see it I am going to die sometime and someWHERE. I have known plenty of low/moderate income people die. They didn't die in an alley way or on a sidewalk. That's all we are talking about at the end of it, right? Firing our arrow like Robin Hood to determine our final resting place? Money just never interested me all that much. The hassle of earning it, then investing it? Sounds really tedious.

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, the blob said:

$20K for an IH 181 is a deal compared to what a banana taped to a wall goes for.

Haaaa. True enough. I saw a basketball suspended in some sort of polymer acrylic once selling for $50K. And what is the difference between a Jackson Pollack painting and my 3 year old son having a tantrum on a sheet of paper with his little paint set? None that I can see.

[the blob]

4 hours ago, Darkowl said:

Correct. Most things in real estate have bounced back (for now). And If you were fortunate enough to have been able to ride out the 2008 wave, then you’d definitely be seeing your returns now. This is where the “play the long, boring game” notion comes from. 

But my point is that not everyone is fortunate to ride it out. I personally would have had to file bankruptcy had I invested right before the crash, and it just wouldn’t have been worth it. Not to mention the amount of time I would have had to wait in order to break even on my investment.  I just feel like that’s time and money that could be utilized in much better ways, and why I don’t always agree that investing at the worst times is better than not investing at all. It’s an impractical blanket statement for many, imo. 

 

why would you have had to file bankruptcy? did you lose your job? I took a massive 65% pay cut in 2004, but in exchange, got a job with a ton of job security, so while I was feeling broke a times, at least I didn't have the spectre of outright unemployment worrying me. i was worried about furloughs, which, thankfully, were small.

[Darkowl]

1 minute ago, Randall Ries said:

Money just never interested me all that much. The hassle of earning it, then investing it? Sounds really tedious.

It is tedious!  And I've come to that point in my life where making money doesn't mean nearly as much as it used to. I've spent the last two decades flipping comics, and music gear, and now I'm burned out. The journey was a lot of fun, but being a stay-at-home dad of two girls for the last 4 years has completely destroyed my energy, lol! 

[the blob]

3 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Haaaa. True enough. I saw a basketball suspended in some sort of polymer acrylic once selling for $50K. And what is the difference between a Jackson Pollack painting and my 3 year old son having a tantrum on a sheet of paper with his little paint set? None that I can see.

pollock did it first. and you're wrong. pollock's works are far more complex and interesting than anything junior can currently produce. the thing is, there is little about them that a grown up can't figure out how to emulate pretty well and, perhaps, better with time as they may not kill themselves by drunk driving only 9 years into their career as a drip painter. but pollock did it "first" (see below)

my dad had just returned from WW II and in 1946 and decided to take an art class in college (now that the GI Bill was paying!) and he invented his own drip painting technique before anyone had seen a pollock (who i understand started drip painting in 1947). the professors told him it was garbage and he should focus on figurative work. he stopped all together. maybe better for me as I would have never been born if he had struck big as a painter.

[Randall Ries]

4 minutes ago, the blob said:

I just think that a lot of people around me will see that and think i am equating flags and skulls and think I'm a QAnoner or something. My wife has bought me super hero themed / dad themed shirts and stuff like that. "The Incredible Dad" (with a pciture of the hulk). I wear them.

Aw. You wife loves you. As your kids do, I bet.

We have become like the Crips and Bloods. Wear a MAGA hat. Wear a BLM shirt. How about keeping opinions to ourselves instead of choosing up sides as if we were rooting for our favorite sports team? No one is listening to anyone anymore anyway. Nothing gets solved or fixed.

"OH! You like SPIDERMAN? GIMP! I LIKE The X-MEN!" OH! What's that MUSIC you are listening to? WHO? JOHN PRINE? WHO is THAT?" Just sheddup.

In 1983, a friend burst into the room and I was listening to Bruce Springsteen's "Born To Run" album.

"WHAT is this CARP you are listening to?"

"Well, it's Bruce Springsteen. Heckuva writer and...."

"It sounds WEIRD! It's STINKS!"

Next year, "Born In The USA" was shoved down our throats and she sure knew who he was THEN!

I would LOVE to be an ex-Pat. Have to have money for that as well. Maybe it's a "man" thing, but when something is broken beyond repair, I tend to walk away from it. My biggest concern is if I moved to say Norway or New Zealand, they would welcome me and as I got used to the way of life, it would dawn on me that I was being HUMPED every day of my LIFE here. Hopefully I would get over it.

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, Darkowl said:

It is tedious!  And I've come to that point in my life where making money doesn't mean nearly as much as it used to. I've spent the last two decades flipping comics, and music gear, and now I'm burned out. The journey was a lot of fun, but being a stay-at-home dad of two girls for the last 4 years has completely destroyed my energy, lol! 

Isn't THAT the best? I was the "primary care giver" as we were called back in the 1990's for my daughter. I re-arranged my schedule so my ex-wife worked during the day and I cleaned banks at night. I felt STRONGLY (and still do) that a parent needs to be with their kids. It was tiring but not tireSOME, you know? God. We had a good relationship, my daughter and I.

[Darkowl]

3 minutes ago, the blob said:

why would you have had to file bankruptcy? did you lose your job? I took a massive 65% pay cut in 2004, but in exchange, got a job with a ton of job security, so while I was feeling broke a times, at least I didn't have the spectre of outright unemployment worrying me. i was worried about furloughs, which, thankfully, were small.

Well, I personally didn't file bankruptcy, but I knew countless people who did, because they either lost their jobs or their business went belly-up. They no longer had sufficient income to support their investments. I also knew other people who relied on flipping houses for their income prior to the crash, but that's kinda hard to do when the profits you were banking on aren't worth nearly as much as they once were. 

I was attending college during the crash, and I can't tell you the amount of people in their 50's and 60's who went back to school to pursue something in healthcare. That's all people wanted at that point: stability, and enough money to get them through. They were done "investing". 

[Poekaymon]

3 minutes ago, the blob said:

pollock did it first. and you're wrong. pollock's works are far more complex and interesting than anything junior can currently produce.

This is correct.  It's easy to deride things you don't understand.  Some things actually take training to appreciate the nuances.  Understanding of the context and history can in some cases make a big difference too.  But all of that isn't immediately obvious to the layperson.

I, for example, can't tell a $5 dollar bottle of wine from a $500 bottle.  But a lot of folks tell me there actually are differences in various wines.  A lot of art is similar.

[Randall Ries]

6 minutes ago, the blob said:

pollock did it first. and you're wrong. pollock's works are far more complex and interesting than anything junior can currently produce. the thing is, there is little about them that a grown up can't figure out how to emulate pretty well and, perhaps, better with time as they may not kill themselves by drunk driving only 9 years into their career as a drip painter. but pollock did it "first" (see below)

my dad had just returned from WW II and in 1946 and decided to take an art class in college (now that the GI Bill was paying!) and he invented his own drip painting technique before anyone had seen a pollock (who i understand started drip painting in 1947). the professors told him it was garbage and he should focus on figurative work. he stopped all together. maybe better for me as I would have never been born if he had struck big as a painter.

I understand. I was kidding about Pollock. I love art whether I "get" it or not. Much of it only makes sense to the people who created it. Like some song lyrics or poetry. But I try. It deserves respect.

Your Dad sounds like he got the "Mr Tanner" treatment. Someone he may have respected told him it was rubbish and he put it away. It's a hard thing to learn. To value someones opinion and yet be able to reject certain aspects of their perspective and keep on keeping on with our own ideas. Criticism is hard to take when we have an artistic bent. I love to write essays. Mostly for myself. But when I let people read them, they either don't get them or they are offended by them. Too many nerves get plucked, I suppose. I don't fit in with a "woke" world. I don't fit THEIR narrative.

[the blob]

3 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

This is correct.  It's easy to deride things you don't understand.  Some things actually take training to appreciate the nuances.  Understanding of the context and history can in some cases make a big difference too.  But all of that isn't immediately obvious to the layperson.

I, for example, can't tell a $5 dollar bottle of wine from a $500 bottle.  But a lot of folks tell me there actually are differences in various wines.  A lot of art is similar.

What we have for $5 in the states is usually pretty terrible. In Europe $5 can get you a decent bottle. But I suspect I'd be unable to differentiate between many $15 bottles and the $500 one.

[Randall Ries]

44 minutes ago, Poekaymon said:

Hopefully all those eBay bidders don't find out about Greg Reece!

That's a concern. He seems to have his act together. I don't think he would accept an offer for x2 his asking price. There are plenty of online dealers who are still selling at reasonable prices. My bigger concern is if these highrollers figure out the high grade raws that are still out there.

[the blob]

1 minute ago, Randall Ries said:

I understand. I was kidding about Pollock. I love art whether I "get" it or not. Much of it only makes sense to the people who created it. Like some song lyrics or poetry. But I try. It deserves respect.

Your Dad sounds like he got the "Mr Tanner" treatment. Someone he may have respected told him it was rubbish and he put it away. It's a hard thing to learn. To value someones opinion and yet be able to reject certain aspects of their perspective and keep on keeping on with our own ideas. Criticism is hard to take when we have an artistic bent. I love to write essays. Mostly for myself. But when I let people read them, they either don't get them or they are offended by them. Too many nerves get plucked, I suppose. I don't fit in with a "woke" world. I don't fit THEIR narrative.

well, he wanted to be an engineer before the war, but after 3 years he came back and didn't, so he was dabbling. Majored in history. Not very practical, but he was an Ivy League guy, good looking, WASPy, veteran, and the U.S. was going to have an economic boom, so he always found work until he was about 60 and they decided he was too old and, effectively, unemployable.

[the blob]

3 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

That's a concern. He seems to have his act together. I don't think he would accept an offer for x2 his asking price. There are plenty of online dealers who are still selling at reasonable prices. My bigger concern is if these highrollers figure out the high grade raws that are still out there.

Reece is one of the few high end dealers I have actually bought from (aside from cheap books discounted at the end of shows). And I have sold to him. I think he got a good deal on the X-Men 1 I sold him. Wish i had kept it.

someone in the BA thread posted a clink auction that was 400% a current BIN on ebay for a cgc book. just stupid. yes, the clink book was a nicer looking 9.6, but still

[Randall Ries]

1 minute ago, the blob said:

well, he wanted to be an engineer before the war, but after 3 years he came back and didn't, so he was dabbling. Majored in history. Not very practical, but he was an Ivy League guy, good looking, WASPy, veteran, and the U.S. was going to have an economic boom, so he always found work until he was about 60 and they decided he was too old and, effectively, unemployable.

Some people like your Dad have a "soul". Money isn't the end-all-be-all. I love archaeology. I can't go to Egypt or Turkey or Israel. But I ran around in the woods around here and found many sites that blew my head off. I would take my 2 week vacation and spend it exploring the woods and fields around here. I'd go back to work and be resentful. I hated it. That's when I decided to become self employed. Make a little more money and set my own hours so I COULD focus on things that are really what life is SUPPOSED to be about. Learning. Connection to our surroundings. DECENT interaction with people of like mind.

[Darkowl]

16 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Isn't THAT the best? I was the "primary care giver" as we were called back in the 1990's for my daughter. I re-arranged my schedule so my ex-wife worked during the day and I cleaned banks at night. I felt STRONGLY (and still do) that a parent needs to be with their kids. It was tiring but not tireSOME, you know? God. We had a good relationship, my daughter and I.

Haha! The best? Man, I don't know. In some ways, yes. Absolutely, but this is without a doubt the HARDEST gig I've ever had, and people will never understand that until they've done it themselves.

My friends think it's a giant party and I get to play Xbox all day. Dude, I wish! But it's laundry, dishes, grocery shopping, taking the kids to school, picking them up from school, scheduling Dr. appointments, clothing them, feeding them, etc., etc., all while the kids are demanding things from you: "Daddy, I want a snack! Daddy, she pulled my hair! Daddy! Daddy! Daddy!". I kid you not, I've started to hear "Daddy" being called in my head. Kinda like how you get an annoying song stuck in your head, ya know? 

I thought I was going to be able to make my own schedule. Wrong! The kids make your schedule. You become their servant and personal chauffeur (school, dance, etc.). 

Now that I think about it, it wasn't too bad when It was just the one. But throw another kid into the equation and all hell breaks loose! 

I've had a lot of difficult jobs, but this one really tests my mental and emotional stamina like no other. I'm always drained now. Always.

As much as I love my kids, I can't wait to get back to my normal job, lol!

Edited March 25, 2021 by Darkowl