Sarg Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Granted, the image on the left by Feldstein is 2-3 years after the image on the right, but the face, eyebrows, lips, head, body, and folds are very similar. They are not the way that Baker drew eyes, lips, heads, breasts, bodies, and folds. Fingers? Yes, Al's fingers are different, but so are Matt's when they are properly inked (see Seven Seas #4 for example). Many Iger shop covers and panels completely butcher people's fingers. tabcom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 And here are a bevy of known Feldstein women from 1947-50 compared with a bevy of known Baker women from roughly the same time frame. In my opinion, the similarities of Al's style to PL 17 are much closer than Baker's. Also, Baker's poses are usually a lot more dynamic than the cover of PL 17. lou_fine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypinkblu Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I still don't see it, I think Thornton on the Flamingo strips did a great imitation of Baker and those poses were sexy, but not always so dynamic. Feldstein and I went to the same art school many years apart, but I remember seeing his Mad Magazines. These don't look like the Phantom Lady either...but any of these covers could have been a compilation, comic book artists and renaissance artists had a lot of similarities...only comic book artists didn't get the recognition they should have, which is a shame. https://www.google.com/search?q=al+feldstein+mad+magazine&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798&sxsrf=ALeKk02BacwzgaGjO2JVhr9dVFXhQ6LonA:1621203129547&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Gppl3G55hmWWWM%2C6ldu3mamD17scM%2C%2Fm%2F06c5f2&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR9dHyv4cI7OMma1t79nrZLtpA47A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinvZSlnM_wAhUPTt8KHYg3BPYQ_B16BAgtEAE#imgrc=Gppl3G55hmWWWM Funnybooks, comicnoir, ThothAmon and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypinkblu Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjn45ztnc_wAhXEBt8KHd50DXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFC3uwFYt7sBYKjPAWgAcAB4AIABQogBQpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=XZqhYKfBBsSN_Abe6bWoBw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798 https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjU8rf6nc_wAhVCwCkDHUgdDMYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1Cy7AJYyqQDYKWuA2gFcAB4AIABrwGIAaEIkgEEMTUuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=eJqhYNTWMcKAp8kPyLqwsAw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798 I used to own some of the Lorna Doone pages, I don't remember them being "dynamic". ThothAmon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) And here's Matt's splash interior to PL 14 on the right compared with PL 17. Similar, but her chest is completely different. Splash page to PL 18 is a patented Baker pose. Note her fingers. The story ends with PL on a dock, so perhaps 17's cover was intended for this story. Since Iger assigned different inkers to butcher Matt's pencils in each issue, there isn't a consistently drawn PL in each issue. Sometimes the inking is so bad you can't tell it's Matt's pencils. Edited May 16, 2021 by Sarg typo aardvark88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linmoth Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I think the PL on the cover had some breast augmentation! Or the one in the splash had a reduction! Sarg and lou_fine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, linmoth said: I think the PL on the cover had some breast augmentation! Augmentation = Kamen or Al Feldstein. lou_fine, Mmehdy, BuscemasAvengers and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post comicnoir Posted May 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, linmoth said: I think the PL on the cover had some breast augmentation! Or the one in the splash had a reduction! There are these ppl called art directors who come in and look over the shoulder of the artist and says "make them bigger, it's the cover" MasterChief, ThothAmon, tth2 and 2 others 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I’m just putting together a mental picture of Al saying I didn’t draw it with a fan insisting no you’re wrong you did do it! I don’t think 6 shots of Spirytus Stawski could get me to see that as a Feldstein cover even if he didn’t deny it but what the hell it could be worse and someone could try and say it’s a Kirby piece… ThothAmon and GreatCaesarsGhost 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicnoir Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, skypinkblu said: https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjn45ztnc_wAhXEBt8KHd50DXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFC3uwFYt7sBYKjPAWgAcAB4AIABQogBQpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=XZqhYKfBBsSN_Abe6bWoBw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798 https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjU8rf6nc_wAhVCwCkDHUgdDMYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1Cy7AJYyqQDYKWuA2gFcAB4AIABrwGIAaEIkgEEMTUuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=eJqhYNTWMcKAp8kPyLqwsAw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798 I used to own some of the Lorna Doone pages, I don't remember them being "dynamic". I have a handful of Baker Flamingos, and one Thorton. Wish I had more (Baker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post waaaghboss Posted May 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, comicnoir said: There are these ppl called art directors who come in and look over the shoulder of the artist and says "make them bigger, it's the cover" ThothAmon, tth2, Park and 15 others 16 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicnoir Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Oh no, now I gotta throw salt in my eyes. sfcityduck and Funnybooks 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skypinkblu Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Sarg said: And here's Matt's splash interior to PL 14 on the right compared with PL 17. Similar, but her chest is completely different. Splash page to PL 18 is a patented Baker pose. Note her fingers. The story ends with PL on a dock, so perhaps 17's cover was intended for this story. Since Iger assigned different inkers to butcher Matt's pencils in each issue, there isn't a consistently drawn PL in each issue. Sometimes the inking is so bad you can't tell it's Matt's pencils. See, that is the difference, I was looking at her mouth and eyebrows, not her chest ...not that there is anything wrong with it;) Her leg is way out of proportion on the bottom page, her calf is too big and her thigh is way too long on the leg that is raised and the guy with the sword has creepy fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 53 minutes ago, N e r V said: I’m just putting together a mental picture of Al saying I didn’t draw it with a fan insisting no you’re wrong you did do it! I don’t think 6 shots of Spirytus Stawski could get me to see that as a Feldstein cover even if he didn’t deny it but what the hell it could be worse and someone could try and say it’s a Kirby piece… Al never said, "I didn't draw it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnybooks Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 55 minutes ago, aardvark88 said: Augmentation = Kamen or Al Feldstein. Paging Dr. Feldstein BlowUpTheMoon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sarg said: Al never said, "I didn't draw it." I did say a mental picture of and not an actual picture of… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 5 hours ago, lou_fine said: I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not. The Promise books are being auctioned off on Heritage, not Comiclink. All of them will go up on the floor for live bidding, where they will go up sequentially so you won't be trying to juggle multiple extended bids at the same time. Even any that might be put into the internet-only last day will still get the benefit of live bidding. How is that different from CC's extended bidding? Rip, greggy and szucchini 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 6 hours ago, lou_fine said: Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind. One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades. With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them. Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it. Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace. You really think that was because of CC and not Jon? buttock and greggy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 7 hours ago, lou_fine said: I guess it's really a case of to each, their own, but personally I would have much prefer the books were going through CC as opposed to HA. Any bets that if the books were going through CC, there would be far far fewer cases of "damaged" books encased in what are rather obviously and sometimes blatantly overgraded holders. Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place. Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house. As for an auction catalog, CC also produces one for their Event Auctions like the one they did for the Jon Berk Auction, but definitely not as nicely laid out and formated like the one from Heritage. As for their auction listing descriptions, they are most definitely the worst by far as in most cases, they just simply list the title, grade, PQ, CGC label notes, and then sort of expect the book to sell itself after that. Definitely not the all out hype that CL does when it comes to their auction listing descriptions for their Featured Auction books, whereby you are almost tempted to throw in a bid after reading that flowery overblown description of theirs, even though you might have had zero interest in the book to start with. Being a bit selfish though, I guess there's also a personal reason why I would have prefer the books to have gone through CC, as opposed to going through Heritage. I believe the auction would have been done in a slightly different format and rollout which might possibly have made it a bit easier for some of the smaller players with shallower pockets to have a better shot at getting some of these books here. I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not. Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind. One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades. With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them. Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it. Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace. I think if every book is pressed in this promise collection , it will set a precedent for the other auction houses to follow by necessity. I do not think any serious GA collector today, after the last couple years is gonna leave any money on the table. Especially with auctions fees and grading fees and pancake pressing fees and rushed grading fess..etc. Especially for a major GA collections which has yet to be graded or upgraded with the new acceptable restoration. What I do see is 18 month window to revisit the "church" type collection that many on the boards were not here when those and the SF collections were released.I think every GA collector should attempt to find out what is in the collection, what do you have to acquire to make your GA collection that much better. Collector's who cannot afford or want to pay the price, still should get the fallout of the under graded copies which are gonna be let go after getting the book from the promise collection. Why hold on to it when you own the best, plus you can sell and get more "promise". Lou, I do not think it matters who it went to CC,HA or CL it is for the very smart GA collectors not gonna make a difference. I prefer of course the HA format of bidding not every 3 mins etc and just buying the darn thing. I think also there is not contest on websites and live auctions which can witness. Yes a bigger platform but also more accessible to everyone and with more eyes on the auction the better. I have said this before on early posts, CC and CL should give Ha say 10% of the profit and run their auctions on their platform. Otherwise, you will continue to see Ha break world record comic auctions totals 2/3 times a year and CC/CL totals are just gonna be a blip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo_7071 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 7 hours ago, lou_fine said: Are the two of you also one of these grumpy old men from way back in the day before Heritage arrived on the scene back in 2002 and before Matt took over the grading side of the business back in 2016? If so, it's no longer the Stone Ages as we are now into the 21st century where it's all about not only the square corners, but also flat, flat, flat like a tasty yummy pancake. So, if you even dare to turn in one of those co-called unicorns of yours with the plump rounded spines, just know that you and your book will be taken out behind the woodshed and given your just and deserved dues upon being graded. Matt is involved with grading? I though he was only involved with pressing. That explains a lot. Hasn't he be caught shill bidding before? I don't think integrity is in his DNA. MatterEaterLad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...