They're Still Out There! 22 22

[tth2]

8 hours ago, buttock said:

9 hours ago, Robot Man said:

Pulps are still the wild frontier as well. No Gerber books to show the covers. And even if you are aware of a great cover, good luck in finding a copy. 

I think this highlights the main pro and con of pulps.  They're much harder to find, and comic collectors are impatient.  On the other hand, when they do turn up after years of looking you could see explosive prices due to demand.  But if people find other squirrels to chase, they could flop.  HA having pulp auctions is a good thing for the market.  

The main reason I've never gotten into pulps is that they don't seem to exist in ultra-HG condition.  The best I ever seem to see is VF/NM, and that is super rare, even in later years.

Where are the Church/Reilly/Larson/Allentown pulp equivalents?      

[adamstrange]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

The best I ever seem to see is VF/NM

Oh, the humanity 

[atomised]

6 hours ago, Bookery said:

Your point above is well-founded.  On the other hand, and I also hate to say it, none of this stuff, other than a tiny fraction, will hold value or significance very many generations down the road.  That's the whole deal with pop culture... it's only popular for a generation or several.  Then another pop icon takes over.  If you go by pop-culture crossovers and mass-relevance, in the 1950s Mickey Mouse and Tarzan were probably still bigger than Superman.  In fact, even with the onslaught of MCU movies, they still haven't matched the number of films cranked out about Tarzan.  Yet, except for the rarest items, or the few keys, most collectors today have no interest in either of those characters.

As for art, I long believed it would hold significance much longer.  After all, great art is great art, no?  Well... probably not.  Today's generation is growing up on incredible photo-realistic computer-generated art.  No matter how good a line-drawn piece of art by Matt Baker or Wally Wood is, to them it's still barely more than a hastily-drawn cartoon compared to what they know today.  There are lots of fantastic illustrators from the 1800s and early 1900s, and there will always be collectors for them... but how many of the general populace today would have any interest in even looking at them.  Show them Aubrey Beardsley, N.C. Wyeth, Howard Pyle, Arthur Rackham, Winsor McKay... and tell them what significant artists they were, and they'll look at you like you're nuts.

Tastes change (and you're delineated some reasons above)... in both characters and style.  It's just the way it is and always will be.  

well maybe but Superman will be relevant for at least a couple hundred more years so I think that's a pretty good investment since I won't make it that long myself

[Robot Man]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

The main reason I've never gotten into pulps is that they don't seem to exist in ultra-HG condition.  The best I ever seem to see is VF/NM, and that is super rare, even in later years.

Where are the Church/Reilly/Larson/Allentown pulp equivalents?      

Oh, they do exist but are tough. If you collect condition over the object it’s self, best stick to CGC books with that spiffy big number in the upper left corner. 

As far as pulp pedigrees go, look for Yakima and Strasser copies. 

[Zonker]

I've been thinking about this a bit recently, and if the Golden Age material was limited to Tarzan, Prince Valiant, Mickey Mouse & the like, then I agree things would be pretty dire over the medium to longer term. But given the continuing relevance of (the two clearest examples I can think of) Captain America and Batman, I see a lot of interest continuing for the foreseeable future in their original Golden Age adventures.  And once I've sampled an original 1940s issue, it is not that big a stretch to branch out to wanting to put together a type set of not only a Batman, but a Superman, a Flash Comics, and an All-Star Comics, etc. while I'm at it.  That's kind of how I got in to it: And once I got a Green Lantern All-American Comics cover, I then thought it would be cool to have the Hop Harrigan AA cover, and a Mutt & Jeff AA cover, and maybe someday an Ultra-Man cover of All-American.  Then I thought it might be fun to pick out examples of the evolution of all the different characters through More Fun Comics and Adventure Comics.  And the next thing you know I have a few short boxes of lower grade Golden Age comics.

Add to that the historical importance of WWII, and you can imagine comics that mention or actually show the historical figures of the day continuing to be fascinating time capsules for many decades to come.

[buttock]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

The main reason I've never gotten into pulps is that they don't seem to exist in ultra-HG condition.  The best I ever seem to see is VF/NM, and that is super rare, even in later years.

Where are the Church/Reilly/Larson/Allentown pulp equivalents?      

The overhang really makes the ultra high grade stuff almost impossible.  As RM said, Yakimas & Strassers, but Yakimas are much later than a lot of the big stuff from the 30s.  By and large, if you're looking for brand new looking books then you're looking for file copies.  Another big difference with pulps is that who owns what isn't nearly as well known as it is in comics.  Is there a HG All Story Tarzan?  Is there a HG Shadow 1? It's a completely different field than comics.  If CGC does start certifying them it will be interesting to see if the "top census" effect holds.  If your highest graded is a 6.0 or 7.0, do the multiples and bidding wars still happen? 

[Mmehdy]

4 hours ago, Bronty said:

He did say “other than a tiny fraction.” Meaning AF 15 I don’t think anyone is worried about but the rank and file ?   We are seeing it already.    First appearances used to be a bit more than second appearances.   Now they are the only thing that matters.    The run of the mill is being devalued and the few standouts appreciating.     I can’t speak for him but I think the point bookers is trying to make is that over time there are fewer and fewer standouts .   Again, it’s already happening when there are people seriously suggesting (and probably correct) that marvel spotlight 5 in 9.8 will sell for more than phantom lady 17.    Fewer and fewer books are relevant than ever before. 

Relevant if you mean over 100K price and I do not buy that definition. GA books since the 1970's have exploded many times. Back in 1974 you could not giveaway L.B Cole...in fact it is just the opposite which has occurred, the GA spectrum of collecting has increased and specialized 5 fold from the old day. "Relevant" changes over time, but the diverse number of different types of GA collectors has never been greater. So, some tech geek or widget buyers pays more for MS8 then one greatest SOTI books in top condition OO pedigreed collection. Bronty-both books are gonna sell for a heck of lot money....Great. But if you to ask me, what would the safer of the two in terms of a long term hold, I would go with rarer ultra high grade OO Pedigreed book every time.

Let me be clear..PL#17 is not AF 15, FF1 or Bat1...I agree and iconic books will always be valuable ever 100 years from now, when there is a incredible comic book museum and if fact we don't have to wait 100 ,it is being built on LA/Lucas museum which will attract a million visitors or more a year. No I do see any doom or gloom because other books...not GA are being very valuable. I think that great all markets, GA, SA, Bronze etc and the more value those books  in 80's  attain, the more I believe that it will add value to the GA comic book world.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Mmehdy

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

1 hour ago, adamstrange said:

Oh, the humanity 

 

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, buttock said:

The overhang really makes the ultra high grade stuff almost impossible.  As RM said, Yakimas & Strassers, but Yakimas are much later than a lot of the big stuff from the 30s.  By and large, if you're looking for brand new looking books then you're looking for file copies.  Another big difference with pulps is that who owns what isn't nearly as well known as it is in comics.  Is there a HG All Story Tarzan?  Is there a HG Shadow 1? It's a completely different field than comics.  If CGC does start certifying them it will be interesting to see if the "top census" effect holds.  If your highest graded is a 6.0 or 7.0, do the multiples and bidding wars still happen? 

I've seen some pretty beautiful Tarzan related books posted on this site at times.  

[BuscemasAvengers]

Any reactions to Lon and Ed's webinar (which just finished)?

[sfcityduck]

21 minutes ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

Any reactions to Lon and Ed's webinar (which just finished)?

Whaaa?  Sorry, I dozed off.  Thought it was directly in line with all of Heritage's communications.  But I did appreciate the few bits of new info that dripped out in the portion I saw.  What I'd appreciate most is if they posted a list of all the books (a list which they do have), so I can plan accordingly.  For example, today they let it be known there is no Suspense 3.  I'm guessing that was helpful to anyone who is looking to buy some books, but was pondering holding back their spending in the hopes a Suspense 3 appeared.  

[sfcityduck]

I should also add, I believe they stated they are planning to auction some books raw on the weekends.  Lower value books where the CGC treatment is not warranted.  Famous Funnies was a title mentioned.  Someone should feel free to correct me if I misheard this.  The production values were a little handheld and that could be distracting, although Lon and Ed and the moderator were all very clear and on message.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

For example, today they let it be known there is no Suspense 3.  I'm guessing that was helpful to anyone who is looking to buy some books, but was pondering holding back their spending in the hopes a Suspense 3 appeared. 

Actually, this question here was alreadly answered a couple of weeks ago in this very threrad here:  

On 5/28/2021 at 3:35 PM, mstrange said:

I already asked and was told there was no Suspense comics#3 in the collection. 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 11:49 PM, lou_fine said:

Well, I guess the owners of both the Penn and Church copy of Suspense 3 are probably breathing a sigh of relief after hearing this.  

Any idea if this was just for Suspense 3 only , or were the other early Suspense Comics also missing from the collection as I believe the only ones graded so far has been from either Suspense 5 or 6 and then the later issues after that?  

 

On 5/29/2021 at 2:02 AM, mstrange said:

Collection starts with Suspense #5.

It's really too bad about the Suspense 4 not being in the collection as that's apparently the absolute toughest issue out of the entire run to find.  

At least, there's a copy of Suspense 8 (highest graded by a long shot at CGC 9.2) with the classic L.B. Cole spider cover in there and the first true HG copy to ever come to market.   

 

[lou_fine]

16 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Famous Funnies was a title mentioned.

Yes, I definitely heard this and the first thing that came to my mind was raw copies of the Frazetta Famous Funnies run because they are not worth grading and only end up selling for the same price as raw copies would anyways.    

[sfcityduck]

6 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Yes, I definitely heard this and the first thing that came to my mind was raw copies of the Frazetta Famous Funnies run because they are not worth grading and only end up selling for the same price as raw copies would anyways.    

Too bad those post-date the end of the collection by a few years.  But, you can really score on all those 1943 to 1950 covers!  What are they of again?

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

Any reactions to Lon and Ed's webinar (which just finished)?

The thing that I found interesting was that it seems like Heritage might just have lucked into this auction based upon the family hearing about the big $2.22M Batman 1 sale from earlier this year.  Seems they then thought that this so-called "G to VG" hoard of books might be worth contacting Heritage to see if they would be interested in the collection since the older brother who had made the promise had passed away last year.  

If it was indeed just the media exposure that led the family to Heritage, this means they might just as easily have gone to CC if one of their big sales had hit the media outlets at the right opportune time.  Especially since Vinnie and Metro/CC seems to have a pretty big media profile.  Doubt it would have been either CL or dear we say even Pedigree since we never seem to see any media reports with respect to their big sales. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

6 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Too bad those post-date the end of the collection by a few years.  But, you can really score on all those 1943 to 1950 covers!  What are they of again?

They are pretty much of this..........

[mstrange]

21 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Actually, this question here was alreadly answered a couple of weeks ago in this very threrad here:  

 

 

It's really too bad about the Suspense 4 not being in the collection as that's apparently the absolute toughest issue out of the entire run to find.  

At least, there's a copy of Suspense 8 (highest graded by a long shot at CGC 9.2) with the classic L.B. Cole spider cover in there and the first true HG copy to ever come to market.   

 

Also there is no run of Mystic comics 1st series (Timely) if anyone is waiting on those to turn up.  No I didn't receive the list just asked on some of the books I was intrested in. 

 

[Crowzilla]

7 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

 But, you can really score on all those 1943 to 1950 covers!  What are they of again?

What? You don't love Chief Wahoo and the annual Santa Claus covers? But this is part of why it's hard to maintain a huge dollar average over 5000 books. I think there are less than 400 Timely superhero comics total from 1939 to 1950, and about 1,000 total Timelys published up until 1950 if you count all the Miss America's, Terry-Toons, Jokers, Margies, WIllies, Nellies, Kid Colts, and the like. Probably 1500ish DCs during the time he was collecting, and then you have 2,500 other publisher books. It's just impossible for them all to be winners.

[vheflin]

There are Detectives from mid-1950 and #166 from December, 1950 so could there perhaps also be Crypt of Terror 17 or maybe Vault 12? 

Update: there's Marvel Boy 2 & Adventures Into Terror 44 both from February, 1951 so maybe there'll be good early EC and Atlas horror!

Edited June 9, 2021 by vheflin
update