They're Still Out There! 22 22

[jimjum12]

I'm surprised no mention of the Detective 114 that has already eclipsed 50K ... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[comicjack]

1 minute ago, jimjum12 said:

I'm surprised no mention of the Detective 114 that has already eclipsed 50K ... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Don't ask don't tell you make the price higher 

Edited June 13, 2021 by comicjack

[Cat-Man_America]

7 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

I'm surprised no mention of the Detective 114 that has already eclipsed 50K ... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

The Promise of this collection notwithstanding, most are eclipsing my wallet.

[tth2]

6 hours ago, LordRahl said:

But has anyone noticed that a Surfer #4 is sitting at $56K right now.

It's Silver Surfer, one of the greatest SA titles of all, with a classic cover by John Buscema, one of the greatest artists of all.  I can't believe it's not at $100k already. 

[tth2]

3 hours ago, jimjum12 said:

I'm surprised no mention of the Detective 114 that has already eclipsed 50K ... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

$50k is the new $5k.  Not really worth mentioning.

[lou_fine]

On 6/12/2021 at 2:39 PM, Pantodude said:

 The Copper Age key TMNT#1 sold for $90K in 2019 (more than 3x 2016 value), and TMNT1 has many more 9.8s than MS5.

Yes, that was definitely a game changer of a sale for TMNT 1 back in the lazy hazy (but not yet 2021 style crazy) days of summer in 2019 and most assuredly, a very very "interesting" sale to say the least and it's resulting overall impact on the entire early TMNT marketplace.  

Now, if I remember correctly, the 2 previous sales for TMNT 1 prior to this $90K sale at Heritage in 2019 were only in the mid to high $30K's back in 2018, after CC had completed one in the high $20K's the year before.  Definitely a shocker to the marketplace to have this next one go straight from the $30K+ price range right up into $90K.  Not surprisingly, this was then followed by 2 subsequent sales a few short months later for a copy in the low $50K's and then one for $50K by CL in December of 2019.  This is where it gets a bit interesting as the next one to sell a few months later in April 2020 is a very low profile non-auction BIN sale of the exact same copy that sold for $90K at HA, but this time at a price point of only $59K.

Being the skeptic that I tend to be, if I was a dealer sitting on a few copies of TMNT 1 or a bunch of early TMNT's, wouldn't this be the perfect play to make in order to spike up the market on a supposedly rare and HTF book if you can truly call it that when you have almost 200 copies already slabbed in CGC 9.4 and above, and copies which you can now hopefully push out at substantially higher prices.  If this was indeed the actual intent, all I can say is, well played and perfectly executed!!!  

Interesting to note that the next CGC 9.8 graded copy to sell was the one for Rally Road which sold for somewhere in the mid $60K's or thereabouts, and although many boardies here laughed at the people who would buy into this scam scheme, I guess based upon current expected valuations, the so-called investors would be the ones who got the last laugh here.  Especially now that we have even lower graded CGC 9.6 copies of TMNT 1 selling for even higher amounts than what the last few CGC 9.8 copies have sold for.    

Edited June 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[ThothAmon]

Maybe they’ll look better “in hand”. Fingers crossed and can’t wait. Is the Adventure a Flessel cover or O’Mealia?  Label says Flessel but Cover is signed O’Mealia
 

[lou_fine]

On 6/12/2021 at 3:44 PM, szav said:

Agree with a lot of this, but not sure how many other people would say MS5 is a more popular key than TMNT #1.  I don't see any kids at Halloween dressing up as Ghost Rider but I see a lot of young ninja turtles out there.  Not to mention 20-30 year olds where I work wearing Turtles T-shirts and the like...have yet to see anyone sporting a Ghost Rider shrit.  Pretty sure a Turtles #1 in 9.8 is easily a 150k book now too...even 2nd prints in 9.6 are 5 figure books now.  The turtles have way way more broad cultural popularity and appeal than Ghost Rider (There's also 4 times as many MS5s on census as there are TMNT #1 First prints so it doesn't really mean much that MS5 is older).

Totally agree with you 110% that TMNT is definitely more culturally popular with much broader appeal than Ghost Rider.  

Also agree with you that a CGC 9.8 copy of TMNT 1 might just fetch over $150K in today's crypto crazed FOMO driven marketplace and should finish on top of a CGC 9.8 copy of Marvel Spotlight 5, even though the Ghost Rider book is definitely much rarer and seldom comes into the marketplace in that condition level.  

 

On 6/12/2021 at 3:44 PM, szav said:

Case in point, how much higher do you think that FF48 CGC 9.8 sitting at 75k has to go?

Well, since the last CGC 9.8 graded copy of FF 48 just sold for $93,888 and even though there's some 45 slabbed copies in this equivalent grade, I imagine there's a pretty strong chance that this copy here in this current Heritage Auction could end up hitting 6-figures.  I guess it's only a matter of a few more sleeps before we find out where this copy of FF 48 finishes up at.   

[lou_fine]

On 6/12/2021 at 5:58 PM, sfcityduck said:

MS 5, IH 181, GSX 1, and other Bronze Marvels are not rare or scarce.  There was a very robust collecting community back then and many of us buying back then still have our books, boxed and boarded but not encapsulated, feeling little urgency to sell.

Definitely not rare or scarce or even HTF, especially in the case of Hulk 181 or GSXM 1, since we've clearly seen several copies of each book in every single auction over the past several years.  No surprise here when you have almost 15,000 slabbed copies of Hulk 181 already, with over 500 of them in CGC 9.6 or higher and then also already over 10,000 copies of GSXM 1, with over 600 of them in CGC 9.6 or higher.  Of course, the oft mentioned counterpoint to this sentiment is that the demand side is clearly even higher than the supply side since prices continue to move ever upwards on a steady basis.  

As to your other point here, there very clearly is still a whole ton of HG copies of these books still sitting out there in the private collections of long time comic book collectors.  Just think about this, if I had paid a quarter to cherry picked a book off the shelves of the LCS back in the day or even if I had to pay 75 cents or possibly a buck and a half for a HG back issue copy of it back then, there is absolutely no way in heck that I would be willing to fork over $35 or more than 100X the cost of the underlying book itself just to get it graded and slabbed, UNTIL it actually came time to sell the darned thing.   

 

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

$50k is the new $5k.  Not really worth mentioning.

could be, I remember in the late 60's it was 100-200 tops, 2500, till 1975 and so on. Eric Roberts is a collector that can buy and hold..forever for that matter and no doubt some of the most serious GA collectors are coming into the Promise auction, and with say 300-400 books they could easily dominate. But not 5000, they will be enough for "everyone"

[lou_fine]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:07 PM, szav said:

And just like that the Mask 1 CGC inserts itself into the conversation, now up over 75k w/bp.  Is it another book destined to break 100k? 

I wonder how the Church 9.4 with a small amount of color touch would grade

Yes, totally shocked that the Mask 1 would already be up so high and possibly even challenging to hit 6-figures here by the time it's all said and done here, considering that it is only a CGC 8.5 grade copy, albeit the current highest graded unrestored copy slabbed to date so far. 

Especially when you take into consideration the fact that there are already 2 much higher gradeded copies (albeit Slight Restored copies) slabbed out there in CGC 9.6 (ignore the CGC 9.4 since they need to remove it from the census), including the Edgar Church Mile High CGC 9.6 graded Restored copy.  

Now, if I had any patience and was on any type of high 5-figures budget (which I clearly sadly am not ) and looking for a true blue L.B. Cole unicorn to spend my Promise Collection money on, it would be this gorgeous stunning beauty here:  

Absolute and uncontested highest graded copy by a long shot in CGC 9.2 graded condition with the next closest ones (either unrestored or Restored) being in CGC 7.5 condition.  The all-time classic L.B. Cole spider cover and a true rarity in decent grade and a cover which would go on to spawn several other copycat cover versions going forward.    

 

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, Pantodude said:

I’m intrigued by the Mask1 in this race, too.   A dark horse?  That blue/universal 8.5, barely a “high” grade in some folks’ view, is the sole highest graded. While it’s “only” an 8.5, the next highest graded blue is a mid-grade (itself a sole 7.5)!  Owning not only the highest graded, but also the sole high grade blue example of a GA goodie like that, with the Promise ped to boot!  If I were a betting man....

Like I said in my previous post up above, if I was going to spend that kind of money on a L.B. Cole book, I would be a little patient and go for the sole highest graded copy (either restored or unrestored) by a long shot in terms of Suspense 8 with the all-time classic L.B. Cole spider cover, and a Promise Collection pedigree copy to boot.   

Especially since the Suspense 8 seems to be much tougher to find in decent grade, whereas copies of Mask 1 certainly seems to be out there and seemingly now showing up in almost every single auction for the past couple of years.  

[lou_fine]

18 hours ago, linmoth said:

On 6/12/2021 at 8:19 PM, tth2 said:

One of the 9.8 X-Men 1s is the Pacific Coast copy, upgraded from its original 9.6 grade.  The other is the Curator copy, which was graded as a 9.8 the first time it was submitted, and described by the owner as "bone white".

I held both side by side. I owned the PC copy that was upgraded, there is a second. The Curator is a much better 9.8 copy, IMHO!

Since both of you are clearly two of the biggest uber HG SA collectors on these boards here and tend to follow the grading market quite closely, would you say that both of these copies here would grade back out as CGC 9.8 if resubbed today with its seemingly much more technically focused grading standards?  

Especially in light of the fact that I believe Schmell had to resub the CGC 9.6 graded Pacific Coast copy of X-Men 1 quite a few times before it finally managed to get that much coveted CGC 9.8 in 2004 that he had been trying to obtain.  Like others have said here, the colors on the Pacific Coast copy are clearly not as bold as on the current 9.6 copy up in the CC Event Auction, but would appear to have better alignment and no slight dust shadow on the back at least.  

As for the Curator copy, since it appears to have been slabbed very early on in the first year or thereabouts when CGC first opened their doors, my thinking is that it was most likely still graded according to the old school grading standards prior to CGC "fine-tuning" their undisclosed grading standards.  No doubt the book would look absolutely gorgeous since it was graded as a CGC 9.8 copy right from the get go. 

Any idea if there is a picture or scan of this Curator copy or is this hopefully not the same situation as the famed Church copy of Action 1 which is not available for public viewing save for the lucky few who have been blessed to see and handle the book?  Hopefully, the Curator copy was brought by the current owner himself and not in conjunction with his former "cutting edge" partner or through his Via corporate partnership.  

Edited June 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

11 hours ago, LordRahl said:

But has anyone noticed that a Surfer #4 is sitting at $56K right now. Let that sink in.... $56K for a non-key, albeit classic cover late silver age book.

Well, if you think that Silver Surfer 4 is a non-key book that has no right to be sitting up there at $56K with still days to go, then I can't imagine what you must think about this truly even more non-key mid-run even later Silver Surfer 9 with an absolutely terrible non-classic cover  that still managed to fetched an astounding $42K in the February CL Featured Auction:      

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?id=1461387#detail

 

At least the Surfer 4 has ALWAYS been acknowledged as having one of the absolute best and most classic SA covers out there, and hence Iwould tend to agree with @tth2  post here:  

5 hours ago, tth2 said:

It's Silver Surfer, one of the greatest SA titles of all, with a classic cover by John Buscema, one of the greatest artists of all.  I can't believe it's not at $100k already. 

BTW:  Since you know him, any idea what our resident Wall Street whiz kid ( i.e. @delekkerste ) thinks about all of this apparent FOMO driven and crypto-like craziness that's taken hold of our comic book marketplace, especially in terms of his former beloved BA and CA books which he used to be really into before getting into his boring and much more niche original art?  

Edited June 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[Pantodude]

After the Tec27 and AC1, TEC 140 comfortably next at $168K, followed by XM1 9.0 SS at $102K, PL17 at $99K, MS5 at $96K, AA61 at $90K, and Mask1 at $79K.  With 3-4 days to go (depending on book).  It ain't over until the phat lady sings!

Edited June 14, 2021 by Pantodude

[Funnybooks]

Almost at the finish line...what could go wrong with our predictions?

[jimjum12]

10 hours ago, tth2 said:

$50k is the new $5k.  Not really worth mentioning.

... and 30K is the new Tree-Fiddy ... GOD BLESS ... GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[BuscemasAvengers]

20 minutes ago, Funnybooks said:

Almost at the finish line...what could go wrong with our predictions?

Are you getting commish on trip memes?

[Funnybooks]

3 minutes ago, BuscemasAvengers said:

Are you getting commish on trip memes?

Not at all*

Finish Line Fails tm 

What makes you say that?

[delekkerste]

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

BTW:  Since you know him, any idea what our resident Wall Street whiz kid ( i.e. @delekkerste ) thinks about all of this apparent FOMO driven and crypto-like craziness that's taken hold of our comic book marketplace, especially in terms of his former beloved BA and CA books which he used to be really into before getting into his boring and much more niche original art?  

I've been generally positive on risk assets since the fall of 2019 when the Fed re-started the printing presses to keep the financial system from falling apart with the repo market going haywire. And then, for the past 9 months, with the printing presses in overdrive, I just went full uber-bullish on everything, levering up and buying stocks, crypto & collectibles, realizing that there's just no putting the money printing genie back in the bottle and that liquidity + FOMO had/is/will untether asset prices from all known historical norms, which is pretty much exactly what has happened.  

That said, comic book prices have gotten so nutty this year that I recently went through my collection to see what I had left to sell (I sold most of my better books about a decade ago). I had a small stack of Bronze Age keys that weren't really worth it to me to sell at pre-2021 prices, but, 2 or 3 of them are hitting the auction block in September with prices up hundreds of percent since I last checked them (not providing any details at this time, want to keep expectations fresh when they hit the market)!  

Edited June 14, 2021 by delekkerste