Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 42 42

[Gatsby77]

I was out-and-about yesterday and saw a guy wearing a Spider-Man # 13 t-shirt (McFarlane - black suit homage to # 1).

And it made me so nostalgic I actually went and checked ebay prices for 9.8 slabs of it this morning.

That was sobering - because the book's now 33(!) years old - older than Amazing Fantasy 15 was when I first bought the McFarlane # 13 off the newsstand.

I have long-term concerns about the viability of the hobby primarily due to demographic shifts.

• Kids these days don't buy or read comic books the way they did in the 70s or 80s.
• I live in a major city and know of only one comic book shop here.
• Newsstands don't exist anymore.
• Superhero movies have passed their peak - the genre's now in a decline.
• Videogames - and smartphones - have replaced the need for comic books as quick entertainment.

So...without new blood (today's 12-16 year-olds) buying comics, who will care about them in 30 years?

[1Cool]

On 7/7/2024 at 5:53 PM, LordRahl said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what you're saying here is that things are below 2019 prices and people here are not confident they will get back to 2019 prices? If so, I'd love to know what Silver Age books in what grade you are talking about that are below 2019 prices. Because nothing that I look at is even AT 2019 prices and nowhere close to being below.

The list would be littered with spec books like She-Hulk 1, Moon Knight 1 (heck pretty much anything Moon Knight), tons of FF4 books, etc.  There are quite a few books that are below 2019 prices but I would agree some still have not hit those levels yet.

Whoops - reread your post and you mentioned Silver-Age which have fared better than Bronze / Copper / Modern books but I'm sure there are spec books like 1st Agnes and others that are well below the 2019 levels.

Edited July 8 by 1Cool

[Black_Adam]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:53 PM, LordRahl said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what you're saying here is that things are below 2019 prices and people here are not confident they will get back to 2019 prices? If so, I'd love to know what Silver Age books in what grade you are talking about that are below 2019 prices. Because nothing that I look at is even AT 2019 prices and nowhere close to being below.

One silver age comic that I believe has tumbled to 2019 levels (though not below) is FF 49 in the common grades. Surprising, as Galactus is the antagonist in the upcoming movie. But I believe prices have tumbled in large part to oversupply as this comic is easily found in all but the highest grades. I need prices to tumble more as I really want an affordable copy in 9.0+ 

[Buzzetta]

On 7/3/2024 at 4:20 PM, B3AST said:

What if you bought a book 5-6 years ago for 20K and the last sale was 18K

It's not that bad really, though it is a buyers market, the first I feel we've had in 10+ years. I have about 130 key "investment" books, some major some minor. Of those, 36 have lost value, but I'm still sitting at about 40% return if I sold everything right now. I don't think key prices will fall much further as we head into the full Con season. Now what the election will do to the economy, deities only know

Andrew... tell me the uncomfortable truth.

Are you sure?

Yes... 

Okay here we go. 

Have you ever seen those stories where people win the lottery suddenly coming into millions of dollars and then suddenly going broke?   Remember those VH1 Behind the Music specials?

The time period during and after the pandemic was marred with free money.   Yes, I said that.  Free money.   When people have a sense of free money they have a habit of not spending in a way that could be considered... "discretionary."

Now am I saying that this describes you?  I do not know you well enough to say that, so of course this does not describe "you" but my take on the collectables market. 

People should not have been spending the money that they did at the prices they were.

I personally inflated prices that were hail mary listings and almost everything sold at what I wanted them to sell at.  I have spoken about how my GI Joe collection went for unheard of prices that still have not been reached for loose figures.  When people asked me to negotiate, I flat out refused only for the negotiator to find out that someone else took it at full value.  I quite literally sold off maybe 1/3 to 2/5 of my toy collections from Joe to Lego to Transformers and Star Wars.  Anything I missed, I bought back at less than I was paid for it. 

I personally know of people (not friends) that were buying non-essentials instead of paying rent because there was a moratorium placed on rent collections.  Why pay if they said you did not have to and why save that free money for back rent, you can work that out later.  The person I know of bought a new playstation, TV and other things.

Individuals you say?  How about businesses?   One of my local pizza places that was OPEN the entire time claimed to have 45 employees and took over $300,000 to pay for lost payroll.  Pizza places were some of the only things that were continuously open and operated with an increase in volume.   $300,000... Seriously?  Free money.  The local pizza place employees 45 people?     What did he do with that money?  I am sure there was a team of relatives on the payroll from his kids to anyone else in the family and it went to someone's new boat or car. 

And this is one of many stories that are easily traced.  All you have to do is look and see who in your area received this money and then remember if they were open or not.  Party planning business... yeah they were shut down.  Lawn service?  Someone was mowing the whole neighborhood.  It wasn't me and no one else except for me around here does their own lawn so they didn't have mowers.  (I still use my Craftsman lawnmower.)  Yet, the lawn services collected too.  "Free money."

The point is, that prices reached an artificial high because people were throwing money at things with reckless abandon because they had it to throw.  Now, when reality sets in, they find that people no longer have some of that free money to spend and they are left holding the proverbial bag.  Suddenly people are not spending that much on those collectables. 

But Andrew, what about things like Action 1?  Or Superman 1?  Those are outliers.  But, keep in mind that even a pizza store owner may collect comics books and $300,000 goes a long way. 

Edited July 8 by Buzzetta

[LordRahl]

On 7/8/2024 at 4:27 AM, 1Cool said:

The list would be littered with spec books like She-Hulk 1, Moon Knight 1 (heck pretty much anything Moon Knight), tons of FF4 books, etc.  There are quite a few books that are below 2019 prices but I would agree some still have not hit those levels yet.

Whoops - reread your post and you mentioned Silver-Age which have fared better than Bronze / Copper / Modern books but I'm sure there are spec books like 1st Agnes and others that are well below the 2019 levels.

Spec books don't count. They tumble even in a hot market. So while yes there might be a select few SA spec books that have tumbled to or below 2019 prices, they would represent a 1-2% share of the market. Not exactly what I took from the OP's post, that he's only talking about a few books.

[1Cool]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:37 AM, LordRahl said:

Spec books don't count. They tumble even in a hot market. So while yes there might be a select few SA spec books that have tumbled to or below 2019 prices, they would represent a 1-2% share of the market. Not exactly what I took from the OP's post, that he's only talking about a few books.

I don't think the OP specified which era should be evaluated in terms of what books are dropping.  Gold and Silver Age books account for about 10% of the books sold on E-Bay so I'd say those two eras make up a very small amount of the overall hobby.  Older books have done decent in terms of not falling all the way back to 2019 values but if 10% of the books are doing ok then what about the other 90%?

[LordRahl]

On 7/8/2024 at 8:45 AM, 1Cool said:

I don't think the OP specified which era should be evaluated in terms of what books are dropping.  Gold and Silver Age books account for about 10% of the books sold on E-Bay so I'd say those two eras make up a very small amount of the overall hobby.  Older books have done decent in terms of not falling all the way back to 2019 values but if 10% of the books are doing ok then what about the other 90%?

This is the post I was responding to (bolded part for emphasis)... so yes, he did specifically say SA.

what i find interesting is the overall negative view of the future of the market for SA, BA and modern books that has emerged here on the boards in the last few years. perhaps it is the prolonged nature of this market slump that began mid-covid and has not let up, as opposed to the shorter dip that happened after the housing crisis in 2009. but i find more and more people writing here with less confidence that things will ever get back to where they were in 2019 for most of these books. not talking about GA rarities and PCH, but silver and bronze specifically. 

i wonder what would need to happen in the world at large for overall confidence in the market for these era books to return to an upward trajectory. 

[The Less Blob]

On 7/7/2024 at 3:44 PM, Ryan. said:

I had some friends that were so sure that market crash was coming they aggressively sold their stocks to free up capital to buy back in at the bottom that never came.

I felt so smart doing this before the covid crash, and then so stupid not getting back in at the right time. I probably lost a couple of years of retirement income.

[thehumantorch]

On 7/8/2024 at 7:03 AM, Black_Adam said:

One silver age comic that I believe has tumbled to 2019 levels (though not below) is FF 49 in the common grades. Surprising, as Galactus is the antagonist in the upcoming movie. But I believe prices have tumbled in large part to oversupply as this comic is easily found in all but the highest grades. I need prices to tumble more as I really want an affordable copy in 9.0+ 

I think you'll find similar drops for many of the other FFs in this range.  FF48 for example

[Telegan]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:32 PM, Ryan. said:

Back in my day we made sure to get good and outraged at posts about different age groups. Also, turkeys were called walking birds and we wore onions on our belts, as was the style at the time.

Every time someone posts Grandpa Simpson quotes, it cracks me up.  I especially love the line where he says "back in my day we used to squeeze rocks for water... and we liked it!"

But don't laugh... it'll happen to you :

 

Ok, sorry for being off-topic.  Now we can return to young people vs old people debates.

Edited July 8 by Telegan

[Ryan.]

On 7/8/2024 at 1:04 PM, Telegan said:

Every time someone posts Grandpa Simpson quotes, it cracks me up.  I especially love the line where he says "back in my day we used to squeeze rocks for water... and we liked it!"

But don't laugh... it'll happen to you :

 

Ok, sorry for being off-topic.  Now we can return to young people vs old people debates.

 Abe is the go-to reference point for all old man backinmydayisms.

[piper]

On 7/8/2024 at 7:03 AM, Black_Adam said:

One silver age comic that I believe has tumbled to 2019 levels (though not below) is FF 49 in the common grades. Surprising, as Galactus is the antagonist in the upcoming movie. But I believe prices have tumbled in large part to oversupply as this comic is easily found in all but the highest grades. I need prices to tumble more as I really want an affordable copy in 9.0+ 

That's great news!  I need to replace my copy that I sold off.

[namisgr]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:38 AM, DC# said:

Comic Buyers Guide!  I subscribed as a kid and was more excited to get that newspaper each week than I was about getting the actual comic books.   I was completely obsessed with what was coming next - a characteristic that has followed me my entire life.  Besides the news of what was coming - there were usually ads that gave sneak looks into comic book covers that were coming in the months ahead.    
 

Oh those were the days….

Yet another old man backinthedayism.

Before it was re-named the Comic Buyer's Guide, it was a black and white publication begun in 1971 called The Buyer's Guide For Comic Fandom.  Chock full of ads from dealers, hobbyists, and collectors from all over the country, its weekly arrival in the mail was an exciting day.  Some of the ads were typed out, others were handwritten, and it was the internet of its day for buying and selling books.  Unfortunately, when done with them my copies would go into the newspaper pile for trash pick-up, and none survived.

Some of the covers were cool, too.

Edited July 8 by namisgr

[alexgross.com]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:53 PM, LordRahl said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what you're saying here is that things are below 2019 prices and people here are not confident they will get back to 2019 prices? If so, I'd love to know what Silver Age books in what grade you are talking about that are below 2019 prices. Because nothing that I look at is even AT 2019 prices and nowhere close to being below.

apologies for the confusion but no, i did not mean that prices for SA are below 2019. i meant that in 2019, the sky seemed to be the limit, and confidence about the overall SA comics market was extremely strong. more than that, the global economy was flying on most cylinders. then covid happens, comics values get hyper-inflated by a giant bubble, and then from 2022-2023 it bursts, leaving us slightly better on comics values than we were in 2019, but not much, and with few signs of things returning to an upward trajectory. in fact, many SA books are still falling in price, albeit not dramatically. 

my comment was about the more than three year dip that we are now in, and how attitudes about it seem fairly negative, with little optimism that the market will return to curves that go upwards on the right side in 2024 or 2025. 

[thehumantorch]

On 7/8/2024 at 9:37 AM, LordRahl said:

Spec books don't count. They tumble even in a hot market. So while yes there might be a select few SA spec books that have tumbled to or below 2019 prices, they would represent a 1-2% share of the market. Not exactly what I took from the OP's post, that he's only talking about a few books.

Well, FF is pretty well a blood bath.  

Here's #4 in 6.0.  Key important book, early SA Marvel, not rare but not super common in decent shape.  High of $12888 in 2021 and a recent sale of $2880.  So currently selling for 22% of it's high in 2021 and 70% of it's high in 2019.   It's worth less than precovid and it's pretty shocking when you start doing the math.  And I'll find similar results for other grades and other SA issues in the run

Total books sold69High/Low price recorded$12888 / $500

Year	Number	High	Low
2024	1	$2880	$2880
2023	2	$4200	$3810
2022	5	$10100	$6000
2021	4	$12888	$4500
2020	4	$4800	$3000
2019	3	$4000	$3511

 

[Motor City Rob]

On 7/8/2024 at 8:13 PM, thehumantorch said:

Well, FF is pretty well a blood bath.  

Here's #4 in 6.0.  Key important book, early SA Marvel, not rare but not super common in decent shape.  High of $12888 in 2021 and a recent sale of $2880.  So currently selling for 22% of it's high in 2021 and 70% of it's high in 2019.   It's worth less than precovid and it's pretty shocking when you start doing the math.  And I'll find similar results for other grades and other SA issues in the run

Total books sold69High/Low price recorded$12888 / $500

Year	Number	High	Low
2024	1	$2880	$2880
2023	2	$4200	$3810
2022	5	$10100	$6000
2021	4	$12888	$4500
2020	4	$4800	$3000
2019	3	$4000	$3511

 

This book is a great example. The 4.0 and 8.0 also just had their lowest sales since 2018. Good for people that couldn't afford this over the past few years, but kind of unsettling not knowing how much further it will drop.

[southern cross]

I have a FF 4 in 3.5, as long as it doesn't drop under the price I paid for it 20 years ago then all good.

Another book is Avengers 1

During the boom a 6.5 sold for something crazy like $14k

I think it's dropped to around the $6.5k

As long as it doesn't drop to $800 then all good 

[lou_fine]

On 7/8/2024 at 8:18 PM, Motor City Rob said:

Good for people that couldn't afford this over the past few years, but kind of unsettling not knowing how much further it will drop.

Yes, whatever happened to all of the boardies who said that they couldn't wait for prices to fall so that they could start buying books again.  

Or is it a case of prices still simply being too high and waiting for them to fall even further before coming in to hit the buy button?  

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:06 PM, lou_fine said:

Yes, whatever happened to all of the boardies who said that they couldn't wait for prices to fall so that they could start buying books again. 

[NoMan]

On 7/8/2024 at 7:42 AM, Buzzetta said:

Andrew... tell me the uncomfortable truth.

Are you sure?

Yes... 

Okay here we go. 

Have you ever seen those stories where people win the lottery suddenly coming into millions of dollars and then suddenly going broke?   Remember those VH1 Behind the Music specials?

The time period during and after the pandemic was marred with free money.   Yes, I said that.  Free money.   When people have a sense of free money they have a habit of not spending in a way that could be considered... "discretionary."

Now am I saying that this describes you?  I do not know you well enough to say that, so of course this does not describe "you" but my take on the collectables market. 

People should not have been spending the money that they did at the prices they were.

I personally inflated prices that were hail mary listings and almost everything sold at what I wanted them to sell at.  I have spoken about how my GI Joe collection went for unheard of prices that still have not been reached for loose figures.  When people asked me to negotiate, I flat out refused only for the negotiator to find out that someone else took it at full value.  I quite literally sold off maybe 1/3 to 2/5 of my toy collections from Joe to Lego to Transformers and Star Wars.  Anything I missed, I bought back at less than I was paid for it. 

I personally know of people (not friends) that were buying non-essentials instead of paying rent because there was a moratorium placed on rent collections.  Why pay if they said you did not have to and why save that free money for back rent, you can work that out later.  The person I know of bought a new playstation, TV and other things.

Individuals you say?  How about businesses?   One of my local pizza places that was OPEN the entire time claimed to have 45 employees and took over $300,000 to pay for lost payroll.  Pizza places were some of the only things that were continuously open and operated with an increase in volume.   $300,000... Seriously?  Free money.  The local pizza place employees 45 people?     What did he do with that money?  I am sure there was a team of relatives on the payroll from his kids to anyone else in the family and it went to someone's new boat or car. 

And this is one of many stories that are easily traced.  All you have to do is look and see who in your area received this money and then remember if they were open or not.  Party planning business... yeah they were shut down.  Lawn service?  Someone was mowing the whole neighborhood.  It wasn't me and no one else except for me around here does their own lawn so they didn't have mowers.  (I still use my Craftsman lawnmower.)  Yet, the lawn services collected too.  "Free money."

The point is, that prices reached an artificial high because people were throwing money at things with reckless abandon because they had it to throw.  Now, when reality sets in, they find that people no longer have some of that free money to spend and they are left holding the proverbial bag.  Suddenly people are not spending that much on those collectables. 

But Andrew, what about things like Action 1?  Or Superman 1?  Those are outliers.  But, keep in mind that even a pizza store owner may collect comics books and $300,000 goes a long way. 

I wish I had sold my AF15 during the pandemic free money thing.