It appears that WATA and Heritage are colluding to pump up the graded videogame market. What are the implications for OA? 3 3

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/8/2021 at 12:41 PM, delekkerste said:

It was from the Gene P. Collection of Cool Stuff - unfortunately, CGC refused to note on the label that the book was in close proximity to the original art to the greatest comic of all-time, G.I. Joe #21, for the past 18 years.  Don't know what is wrong with those guys, that is surely more notable than any pedigree designation.  

Unfortunately, they had to be completely silent about that. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/10/2021 at 9:02 AM, comicwiz said:

Fair points. I guess I can relate because from a personal level, I'm fairly insulated from all this as someone that's been collecting for decades. But as someone who is still actively buying, reporting on values, and/or appraising, I struggle most trying to wade through trying to explain to someone looking to have their collection valued, and who is stuck on the idea that the values being thrown around are the new normal.

The other is the remarkable strides the whole concept of fractional ownership has made in such a short time - for those who don't recall, it's been six years from the time such ideas were hatched, and the wave of criticisms both received here and here. I'm certain I may be missing one or two others that rode through and got an unwelcome response by the community.

I also understand the day and night difference between sites like Rally Rd, who are running this under the appearance of conforming to SEC rules, giving fractional ownership an appearance of legitimacy, but the concept of gambling or betting on values and this constant upward trajectory seems just as ill-conceived as those old schemes that we all seemingly laughed off not that long ago. The only difference is now, they are dictating markets for us.

God help us when fractional NFT ownership takes off. 🤮

[PhilipB2k17]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:11 PM, Rick2you2 said:

I was talking to someone at the show recently in NJ, and he said Golden Age art (with some exceptions) is down. Non-choice/low quality Silver Age stuff doesn’t seem to move too well, so it may (or has) begun to head down. 

I always point out that are hundreds of thousands of pages of unsold art just sitting on dealer & art rep sights, and much the same on eBay. Random silver age talking head pages from run of the mill books aren’t going to sell very often. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by PhilipB2k17

[batman_fan]

The splash on the right is by Ross and it would take an insane amount of money to pry it out of my hands.

Also there is a flash cover on CLINK right now ask is crazy high but it has a $12k bid on it.

[Michael (OML)1]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:11 PM, Rick2you2 said:

I was talking to someone at the show recently in NJ, and he said Golden Age art (with some exceptions) is down. Non-choice/low quality Silver Age stuff doesn’t seem to move too well, so it may (or has) begun to head down. 

Yes - GA art (with some exceptions) is down - I agree.  Generally, not an area anyone really cares about....except me and a few others

[Bronty]

On 9/17/2021 at 9:59 AM, batman_fan said:

The splash on the right is by Ross and it would take an insane amount of money to pry it out of my hands.

Also there is a flash cover on CLINK right now ask is crazy high but it has a $12k bid on it.

For the record I like Ross art, some of it at least and your splash is beaut!

[delekkerste]

On 9/17/2021 at 3:44 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

God help us when fractional NFT ownership takes off. 🤮

I'm told that the market value of this Cryptopunk is actually around $400K now. 

But, they're offering it at $72K at RallyRd.com.  So, what's the catch?

Well, there's a 2 share purchase limit (each share = $10), so, they're effectively just giving away a bit of free money (roughly $100) that didn't cost them anything (because they bought low) to on board new clients to their platform.

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by delekkerste

[batman_fan]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:22 PM, delekkerste said:

I'm told that the market value of this Cryptopunk is actually around $400K now. 

But, they're offering it at $72K at RallyRd.com.  So, what's the catch?

Well, there's a 2 share purchase limit (each share = $10), so, they're effectively just giving away a bit of free money (roughly $100) that didn't cost them anything (because they bought low) to on board new clients to their platform.

 

Ultimately they need a steady increase in investor dollars, some will come from existing customers while a portion has to come from new investor.  The key it to

1.  Create a perspective that it is a “can’t lose” investment ahead of it time

2.  You are missing out on easy money if you don’t do it (see crypto for numerous examples).

[All-Star Squadman]

On 9/17/2021 at 3:55 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

I always point out that are hundreds of thousands of pages of unsold art just sitting on dealer & art rep sights, and much the same on eBay. Random silver age talking head pages from run of the mill books aren’t going to sell very often. 

Any that sits around year after year would be low demand and overpriced.

When you get right down to it OCA has always been Character Driven then Artist driven. If one doesn't care about the former than the later is of less interest.  When you have both you get the big money sales. Of course like anything else in life there are exceptions.

What would be in more demand a Byrne Space 1999 Splash from 1975 or a Byrne Fantastic Four Splash from 1979/1980/1981/1982/1983 assuming the pages all featured the main characters?  While Space 1999 is cool for the few who still recall it the FF splash would win out every time.

Another example; a McFarlane Infinity inc page or McFaclane Amazing Spider-Man page assuming the pages all featured the main characters?

Entirely my opinion but here is my list of what I look for in comic art - or rather did when it was merely expensive or super expensive

1) Does the piece bring back memories?

2) Character(s)

3) Imagery - I prefer "Heroic" posed or "Heroic" action over a hero having "the snot beat out of them"

4) Artist

3 and 4 can be flipped depending on 1 and 2. Of course cost overrides all on the list.

I'm a collector only though, dealers I do not see following the order I mentioned.

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by 35CentEra

[Rick2you2]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:59 PM, 35CentEra said:

Any that sits around year after year would be low demand and overpriced.

When you get right down to it OCA has always been Character Driven then Artist driven. If one doesn't care about the former than the later is of less interest.  When you have both you get the big money sales. Of course like anything else in life there are exceptions.

What would be in more demand a Byrne Space 1999 Splash from 1975 or a Byrne Fantastic Four Splash from 1979/1980/1981/1982/1983 assuming the pages all featured the main characters?  While Space 1999 is cool for the few who still recall it the FF splash would win out every time.

Another example; a McFarlane Infinity inc page or McFaclane Amazing Spider-Man page assuming the pages all featured the main characters?

Entirely my opinion but here is my list of what I look for in comic art - or rather did when it was merely expensive or super expensive

1) Does the piece bring back memories?

2) Character(s)

3) Imagery - I prefer "Heroic" posed or "Heroic" action over a hero having "the snot beat out of them"

4) Artist

3 and 4 can be flipped depending on 1 and 2. Of course cost overrides all on the list.

I'm a collector only though, dealers I do not see following the order I mentioned.

 

My list is a little different,except I drop nostalgia to the bottom, with rare exceptions. I would rather see an image which is new to me, or at least rarely seen. I would go:

1. Character

2. Quality of pose in splashes, quality of panel structure; agree, not too interested in the snot getting knocked out of the lead

3. Nature of action (there is a Phantom Stranger page in which he is bringing groceries to Zatanna—I really want that one)

4.Style of imagery (realistic, impressionistic, cartoony, etc.)(I go through phases on preferences)

5. Artist, the more obscure, the better, unless it is one of those uncommon ones I miss not owning

6. Nostalgia, but for me, familiarity can breed contempt, not love.

[inovrmihd]

Has anyone in rally road been burned by comic purchases? A comic with a first appearance is easier to explain than some random game worn jersey unless they can add descriptive context (worn during Super Bowl, etc.), let alone a fashion bag.

On 9/16/2021 at 6:28 AM, delekkerste said:

Yes.

My friend invested in 10 Rally offerings and was down on 8 of them at one point. IIRC, the biggest loser was the Michael Jordan 1984 signing day jersey, which, even after rebounding 15% in the latest trading window, is still down 38% since Rally first sold it in January 2021. 

The 1985 game-worn Air Jordan 1's are down 45% since being offered in November 2020. The 1996 game-worn Air Jordan 11's are down 25% since January, and that's even after rebounding 20% in the latest trading window. 

There are plenty of offerings with minus signs in front of them...Hermes Crocodile Birkin bag down 22%...2014 Domaine de la Romanee-Conti wine collection down 24%...1993 Jaguar XJ220 down 36%...1980 Lamborghini Countach down 37%...signed copy of JFK's Profiles in Courage down 27%...Signed 1st edition The Great Gatsby down 32%...2000 Pokemon booster box down 30%...2003 SP Authentic LeBron James autographed rookie card down 35%...

I aggree with others that done if the sports cards ran up and are plentiful enough (MJ rookie cards, etc.) that the decline doesn’t tell me much.

Edited September 20, 2021 by inovrmihd
Typo

[Bronty]

Speaking of games and OA, RIP Mick McGinty who unfortunately just passed away from cancer.    Mick did one quasi comic cover I know of (Mad Magazine, attached) and many wonderful console game covers including Street Fighter 2, Streets of Rage 2 and Shining Force.   Mick was a lovely human being and it’s sad to have lost a real talent.   RIP Mick. 

[MAR1979]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:45 AM, batman_fan said:

The Black Cat has beoobs so she is deemed a major character.

Unless it's DC Character then nothing appears to matter. Only exception I can think of is Harlequin.

Minor Marvel Character gets small mention on a TV show 1st appearance jumps to hundreds or more and continue to climb.. DC somewhat Major (well major-ish) Character gets own TV Show, values go up only a tiny amount then stabilize - IE ,  Stargirl, New Teen Titans/Titans TV [Starfire, Raven, Cyborg (Doom Patrol) ]

[All-Star Squadman]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:45 AM, MAR1979 said:

Unless it's DC Character then nothing appears to matter. Only exception I can think of is Harlequin.

Minor Marvel Character gets small mention on a TV show 1st appearance jumps to hundreds or more and continue to climb.. DC somewhat Major (well major-ish) Character gets own TV Show, values go up only a tiny amount then stabilize - IE ,  Stargirl, New Teen Titans/Titans TV [Starfire, Raven, Cyborg (Doom Patrol) ]

DC gets no love.  Given bulk of their 70 and early 80's output it's not a surprise, what is a surprise to me are are mid 80's -1990 stuff too gets little love.  If Sandman 1 and Sandman 8 had been Marvel Books they would be over $3k each now. They barely touch half that currently. Savage She-Hulk 1 goes for about the same money and it's one of the highest population CGC census books in existence - top 6 in 9.8 population IIRC. While Sandman 8 has only about 3-4% of the She-Hulk CGC census pop.

Bottom line as mentioned by others, DC is not anywhere near being in Marvel's League.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by 35CentEra

[Bronty]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:12 AM, 35CentEra said:

DC gets no love.  Given bulk of their 70 and early 80's output it's not a surprise, what is a surprise to me are are mid 80's -1990 stuff too gets little love.  If Sandman 1 and Sandman 8 had been Marvel Books they would be over $3k each now. They barely touch half that currently. Savage She-Hulk 1 goes for about the same money and it's one of the highest population CGC census books in existence - top 6 in 9.8 population IIRC. While Sandman 8 has only about 3-4% of the She-Hulk CGC census pop.

Bottom line as mentioned by others, DC is not anywhere near being in Marvel's League.

 

Not only does DC not get enough love, anyone that is not Marvel OR dc gets less than zero love.    

As someone who loves all genres of comics as long as the stories and/or art are enjoyable, the past 20 years of the hobby slowly becoming about superheroes only, and marvel only, is disappointing.

[jjonahjameson11]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:12 AM, 35CentEra said:

DC gets no love.  Given bulk of their 70 and early 80's output it's not a surprise, what is a surprise to me are are mid 80's -1990 stuff too gets little love.  If Sandman 1 and Sandman 8 had been Marvel Books they would be over $3k each now. They barely touch half that currently. Savage She-Hulk 1 goes for about the same money and it's one of the highest population CGC census books in existence - top 6 in 9.8 population IIRC. While Sandman 8 has only about 3-4% of the She-Hulk CGC census pop.

Bottom line as mentioned by others, DC is not anywhere near being in Marvel's League.

 

Savage She-Hulk 1 is an interesting book.  Its her first appearance, but more importantly, she has the potential to appear in so many movies throughout the Marvel Universe: FF, Avengers, Hulk...etc.  Sure, there's a lot of high grade copies out there, but current prices may be low if she makes it big in the MU.

[Bronty]

Its also a steaming lump of turd, but hey, its Marvel turd, and like you said, she might be in a movie, so we better all buy 20 copies. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Bronty

[jjonahjameson11]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:02 AM, Bronty said:

Its also a steaming lump of turd, but hey, its Marvel turd, and like you said, she might be in a movie, so we better all buy 20 copies. 

Unfortunately, I've read much worse from Marvel, DC, Tower, Archie, and Harvey 

[All-Star Squadman]

Books	CGC Label	CGC Total	Avg. Grade	10	9.9	9.8	9.6	9.4	9.2	9.0	8.5	8.0	7.5	7.0	6.5	6.0	5.5	5.0	4.5	4.0	3.5	3.0	2.5	2.0	1.8	1.5	1.0	0.5
1. Sandman 8 (8/89, D.C./Vertigo Comics)             1st appearance of Death.	Universal	1,775	9.24			284	501	359	206	159	123	73	26	20	9	6	4	3	2
2. Sandman 8 (8/89, D.C./Vertigo Comics)	Signature	41	9.46			15	14	6		3	1	1			1

Books	CGC Label	CGC Total	Avg. Grade	10	9.9	9.8	9.6	9.4	9.2	9.0	8.5	8.0	7.5	7.0	6.5	6.0	5.5	5.0	4.5	4.0	3.5	3.0	2.5	2.0	1.8	1.5	1.0	0.5
1. Savage She-Hulk 1 (2/80, Marvel Comics)             Origin & 1st appearance of She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters). Origin of the Hulk retold.	Universal	9,028	9.19		3	2,258	2,647	1,413	711	563	425	269	208	174	113	79	51	41	21	25	8	13	1	4				1
2. Savage She-Hulk 1 (2/80, Marvel Comics)	Signature	504	9.12			149	103	69	37	42	34	16	18	14	10	5	1	4	1		1

Edited January 14, 2023 by All-Star Squadman

[Matches_Malone]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:12 AM, 35CentEra said:

DC gets no love.  Given bulk of their 70 and early 80's output it's not a surprise, what is a surprise to me are are mid 80's -1990 stuff too gets little love.  If Sandman 1 and Sandman 8 had been Marvel Books they would be over $3k each now. They barely touch half that currently. Savage She-Hulk 1 goes for about the same money and it's one of the highest population CGC census books in existence - top 6 in 9.8 population IIRC. While Sandman 8 has only about 3-4% of the She-Hulk CGC census pop.

Bottom line as mentioned by others, DC is not anywhere near being in Marvel's League.

 

What about OA?  Are the  interior pages of SSH1 more desirable and/or higher in price than Sandman 8?