How rare are modern newsstand editions? 6 6

[FlyingDonut]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:37 PM, divad said:

Agreed, as in zero. They have enough of their own books to sell.

Every now and then I'll see a post 2010 newsie in a store - somebody has brought something in, but those are legit hard to find.

[FlyingDonut]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:57 PM, Lazyboy said:

Oh, I don't doubt that they are generally harder to find as they get more recent, because that is expected for the reason you mentioned.

Yes, that is my experience as well. Even after that, I've seen a fair number and have quite a few despite nearly never specifically seeking them out. 

I don't buy that MTU was a big book then, but from what people have said, I didn't think MSHSW 8 was particularly hot when it came out either. If you look at the comic shop ads that were in comics back then, #8 was just another issue from the highly-popular series, and those guys certainly had no problem quickly jacking up the prices on hot issues (like ASM 252).

If you were able to load up and sell them, that's your experience and I don't doubt it, but that issue doesn't seem to fit with the others you mentioned, even more so than a few of the others that aren't the instant mega-hits that everybody knows about.

I was 20 and a college senior in 1985. Making $4.25 on a 75 cent purchase was pretty much the definition of OH YEAH. My college had Tavern nights on Tuesdays where draft beers were a quarter from 9-10 PM. $4 in pure profit was 16 beers.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:40 PM, divad said:

7-11's? or the equivalent?

 

The largest bookstore chain had them for sure. I also saw some in large supermarkets. I'm not sure about convenience stores at that time as I didn't shop at or enter them.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:37 PM, divad said:

Agreed, as in zero. They have enough of their own books to sell.

Well, stores still buy collections (and fewer comics). But yes, somebody who bought Newsstands has to take them to a store to sell and the store has to buy them. Even then, the store has to put them on the sales floor rather than into the extra stock. I can't speak for everywhere, but anywhere I've visited comic shops, it's generally rare to find more than one or maybe two copies of an issue in the bins/boxes and not because that's all they have.

[jimjum12]

On 1/17/2022 at 6:02 PM, Lazyboy said:

The largest bookstore chain had them for sure. I also saw some in large supermarkets. I'm not sure about convenience stores at that time as I didn't shop at or enter them.

If you're patient and don't mind looking. they can be found at places like 2nd and Charles, where bookstore overstock is sometimes available. Personally I'm not motivated enough for that. GOD BLESS.... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[darkstar]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:20 PM, FlyingDonut said:

I think we can make a relatively informed guess as to the minimum number of newsstand copies there were for any single copy based on the number of Barnes and Noble stores in 2013 - the last outlet for newsstand comics. There were 675 stores, so what do we think, five per store? That's 3375 total books, which is far far far more than 1%.

But not every Barnes and Noble had the same titles or allocation. 

[divad]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:01 PM, FlyingDonut said:

I was 20 and a college senior in 1985. Making $4.25 on a 75 cent purchase was pretty much the definition of OH YEAH. My college had Tavern nights on Tuesdays where draft beers were a quarter from 9-10 PM. $4 in pure profit was 16 beers.

Young-un . . . 

[divad]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:30 PM, darkstar said:

But not every Barnes and Noble had the same titles or allocation. 

True, but they all had Spider-Man, Batman and Supes.

[mr_highgrade]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:24 PM, FlyingDonut said:

I think post 2000 newsstands are nearly impossible to find in back issue stock as comic store back issue stock is just rotating amongst comic stores and there's no real injection of books into the system. Newsstand pre maybe 1995 are very easy to find. I would argue, actually, that the scarcer copies of early 80s books would be the direct sale covers (ducks).

and absolutely on Secret Wars 8 - ASM 252 had come out eight months earlier. It was free money. Please, however, do not buy the retconning that Marvel Team Up 141 was a big book then. It was not.

SW #8 was absolutely a thing. I personally bought multiple copies and so did most collectors that I knew. MTU #141 never really cared, although I did buy one of each DE & newsie.

[paqart]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:30 PM, darkstar said:

But not every Barnes and Noble had the same titles or allocation. 

Exactly. I know from what I've seen at these stores that the ones I visited didn't carry more than ten titles or so. Maybe they did get five copies of each of those titles but those would be the highest print run titles. I don't think it is correct that 1) every store carried a full selection of newsstand titles and 2) they didn't order in the same quantities. My guess is that many titles weren't ordered at all in smaller markets or stores. What that might mean is that even if the largest stores ordered five of those, you'd be multiplying 5 copies by 100 stores, not 500.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:57 AM, paqart said:

Exactly. I know from what I've seen at these stores that the ones I visited didn't carry more than ten titles or so. Maybe they did get five copies of each of those titles but those would be the highest print run titles. I don't think it is correct that 1) every store carried a full selection of newsstand titles and 2) they didn't order in the same quantities. My guess is that many titles weren't ordered at all in smaller markets or stores. What that might mean is that even if the largest stores ordered five of those, you'd be multiplying 5 copies by 100 stores, not 500.

And obviously it's not possible that the largest stores (or any other store) could have had more than 5, because that wouldn't fit...

 

 

 

 

 

your narrative.

[divad]

In retrospect, it's funny they are called "newsstands" which by 1965 were an anachronism. Sure there were plenty of actual newsstands in the cities, but the retailers of comic books in the majority (in the suburbs and rural areas) were mom and pop's, small groceries, 7-11s, tobacconists and drug stores. They didn't order titles. They took what they were fed by the distributors. The entire concept of ordering titles did not exist until comic book stores became a thing in the late 70's and the direct market started. If you don't know this, then you weren't there. This really didn't change for "newsstands" - comics were at these stores to bring customers in to buy other stuff (and to keep the kids entertained while the parents shopped) not sell comics. They were never a profit center for any business before the direct market.

Edited January 19, 2022 by divad

[Lazyboy]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:46 AM, divad said:

In retrospect, it's funny they are called "newsstands" which by 1965 were an anachronism. Sure there were plenty of actual newsstands in the cities, but the retailers of comic books in the majority (in the suburbs and rural areas) were mom and pop's, small groceries, 7-11s, tobacconists and drug stores. They didn't order titles. They took what they were fed by the distributors. The entire concept of ordering titles did not exist until comic book stores became a thing in the late 70's and the direct market started. If you don't know this, then you weren't there. This really didn't change for "newsstands" - comics were at these stores to bring customers in to buy other stuff (and to keep the kids entertained while the parents shopped) not sell comics. They were never a profit center for any business before the direct market.

Yeah, and comics were only a small part of newsstand distribution, which was (and is) a huge business.

[paqart]

On 1/18/2022 at 12:57 PM, paqart said:

Exactly. I know from what I've seen at these stores that the ones I visited didn't carry more than ten titles or so. Maybe they did get five copies of each of those titles but those would be the highest print run titles. I don't think it is correct that 1) every store carried a full selection of newsstand titles and 2) they didn't order in the same quantities. My guess is that many titles weren't ordered at all in smaller markets or stores. What that might mean is that even if the largest stores ordered five of those, you'd be multiplying 5 copies by 100 stores, not 500.

I should add that some of those shops likely did order more of some issues but the point isn't to identify the larger orders of the more popular comics. The point is that many titles had little to no presence in newsstand venues because those venues either didn't want to sacrifice the shelf space or they didn't trust the title to sell. Therefore:

1) It is unlikely that comics were evenly distributed to newsstand customers

2) Many titles had zero representation at some of those outlets

3) Newsstand print runs may be 1:100 directs, as some who have knowledge of this have estimated, or less

For those who doubt the viability of print runs in the hundreds, keep in mind that:

4) Modern printing and distribution methods reduced costs associated with printing variations of an issue, such as store variants, blank covers, newsstand vs/direct UPC, etc. Also,

5) there are other reasons to print and distribute newsstands, such as promotion of related graphic novels, to continue to test the market, or as a courtesy to long-standing customers.

Add in the destruction of newsstands, and it is easy to see how a 1:100 print run ratio can turn into a 1:800 market availability ratio.

This post is made in honor of those who insist on pushing the narrative that newsstands aren't that interesting, aren't that rare, can't possibly be as rare as 1:100, and anyone who thinks otherwise is as daffy as a daffodil.

[paqart]

As part of the research I did for one of my recent posts, I looked up newsstand editions of Detective Comics #817. I found a few directs, in first and second edition, and one newsstand. I bought the newsstand. As of that moment, there were no newsstand copies of that comic on eBay. I just received it in the mail today. Unfortunately, it isn't a newsstand. The photo in the ad is a newsstand but not the comic they sent me. This isn't the only time this has happened to me. It has never been the other way around. I have never been sent a newsstand edition when I expected a direct. 

This illustrates a limitation of the methodology I used, which involves counting copies available for sale on eBay. Sometimes, the "newsstands" found are not newsstand editions at all. That reduces the number of newsstands at the same time as increasing the number of directs. In other words, they are even rarer than they appear to be.

I sent a photo of the comic I received to the seller, who promptly refunded the $4 cost of the comic but not the $5 cost of shipping. He said I could keep the comic. Which means I have just paid $5 for a $4 comic that I have zero interest in and doesn't belong in my collection. Not enough money to make a stink over but annoying regardless.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:36 PM, paqart said:

I should add that some of those shops likely did order more of some issues but the point isn't to identify the larger orders of the more popular comics. The point is that many titles had little to no presence in newsstand venues because those venues either didn't want to sacrifice the shelf space or they didn't trust the title to sell. Therefore:

1) It is unlikely that comics were evenly distributed to newsstand customers

2) Many titles had zero representation at some of those outlets

3) Newsstand print runs may be 1:100 directs, as some who have knowledge of this have estimated, or less

For those who doubt the viability of print runs in the hundreds, keep in mind that:

4) Modern printing and distribution methods reduced costs associated with printing variations of an issue, such as store variants, blank covers, newsstand vs/direct UPC, etc. Also,

5) there are other reasons to print and distribute newsstands, such as promotion of related graphic novels, to continue to test the market, or as a courtesy to long-standing customers.

Add in the destruction of newsstands, and it is easy to see how a 1:100 print run ratio can turn into a 1:800 market availability ratio.

This post is made in honor of those who insist on pushing the narrative that newsstands aren't that interesting, aren't that rare, can't possibly be as rare as 1:100, and anyone who thinks otherwise is as daffy as a daffodil.

You still understand literally nothing about Newsstand print runs or distribution. Literally nothing.

[Lazyboy]

On 1/19/2022 at 3:45 PM, paqart said:

Unfortunately, it isn't a newsstand. The photo in the ad is a newsstand but not the comic they sent me. This isn't the only time this has happened to me. It has never been the other way around. I have never been sent a newsstand edition when I expected a direct. 

This illustrates a limitation of the methodology I used, which involves counting copies available for sale on eBay. Sometimes, the "newsstands" found are not newsstand editions at all. That reduces the number of newsstands at the same time as increasing the number of directs. In other words, they are even rarer than they appear to be.

I thought you never bought Directs. But anyway, you're right. It is literally impossible for someone to use a stock photo of a Direct when selling a Newsstand.

[patman2011]

With what you all know and the research you have done how many of the UF 4 books do you think are actually around right now?  From what I understand the Direct Edition books are not particularly rare so I am surprised about the fact that there are sometimes months between listings of this book on ebay.  I would have though with the prices it can reach that whatever was out there would have started coming out to sell by now but there has never been a flood of them as far as I have seen and I have been looking for them for about four years now.

[valiantman]

On 1/19/2022 at 6:20 PM, patman2011 said:

With what you all know and the research you have done how many of the UF 4 books do you think are actually around right now?

GPAnalysis isolates the newsstand issues for Ultimate Fallout #4.

In 2021, there were 1,395 sales for CGC graded UF #4 (first printing).

1,337 were for direct edition first printing (95.8%)

53 were for the variant edition (3.8%) - that's 25 direct for every 1 variant

5 were for the newsstand edition (0.4%) - that's 267 direct for every 1 newsstand, and 10 variant for every 1 newsstand

We will never know exactly how many of anything are still around, but 1,395 sales tell us a lot more than guesses and gut feelings.

Edited January 20, 2022 by valiantman

[patman2011]

That is kinda telling in my eyes if the variant literally sold at the same ratio in which it was supposedly distributed which was 1:25.  Hard to believe that the newsstand is as rare as 1:267 but numbers don't lie and a whole year is a pretty good indicator I would think.  Unless someone comes across a stash of newsstands at an old bookstore it looks like the numbers the UF4 get are more than justified and might even be a little low.

Edited January 20, 2022 by patman2011