THE MARVELS starring Brie Larson, Iman Vellani and Teyonna Parris (2023) 9 9

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2023 at 4:53 PM, drotto said:

This is the same director that said this is really Feige's movie not mine.

[drotto]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:08 PM, Bosco685 said:

https://movieweb.com/the-marvels-nia-dacosta-wonders-whether-directin-marvel-right-choice/

 

Yeah, they are competing to see who is the last one to get thrown under the bus and gets stuck there.

Nia DaCosta says that The Marvels is really a Kevin Feige movie, and while she enjoyed playing in the MCU, she is ready to move on.

Edited November 2, 2023 by drotto

[drotto]

You know it is bad when the MCU cheerleader Grace Randolph is even saying expect around $50 million opening weekend. 

[media_junkie]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:30 PM, drotto said:

You know it is bad when the MCU cheerleader Grace Randolph is even saying expect around $50 million opening weekend. 

I mean it all goes back to a question I've asked before, who is this movie for?  What exactly is the target audience?  Even if this movie does more than a $50 million opening weekend, I have to expect that it is going to see a HUGE drop off come weekend number 2.

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:12 PM, drotto said:

https://movieweb.com/the-marvels-nia-dacosta-wonders-whether-directin-marvel-right-choice/

 

Yeah, they are competing to see who is the last one to get thrown under the bus and gets stuck there.

Nia DaCosta says that The Marvels is really a Kevin Feige movie, and while she enjoyed playing in the MCU, she is ready to move on.

[1Cool]

On 11/2/2023 at 6:40 PM, media_junkie said:

I mean it all goes back to a question I've asked before, who is this movie for?  What exactly is the target audience?  Even if this movie does more than a $50 million opening weekend, I have to expect that it is going to see a HUGE drop off come weekend number 2.

I really want to go see the new Hunger Games movie in the theaters since it just looks good.  A lot of people probably think it looks good so it is a movie that should be shown in the theaters.  The Marvels is not a movie geared to the masses so I just think its doomed to be seen as another nail in Marvel's coffin.

Edited November 3, 2023 by 1Cool

[The humble Watcher lurking]

Good article here about the rise and fall of Marvel movies.

https://variety.com/2023/film/features/marvel-jonathan-majors-problem-the-marvels-reshoots-kang-1235774940/

[paperheart]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:40 PM, media_junkie said:

I mean it all goes back to a question I've asked before, who is this movie for?  What exactly is the target audience?  Even if this movie does more than a $50 million opening weekend, I have to expect that it is going to see a HUGE drop off come weekend number 2.

Hardcore zombies, tween girls and Silvermane.

[Dr. Balls]

On 11/2/2023 at 4:40 PM, media_junkie said:

I mean it all goes back to a question I've asked before, who is this movie for?

I am a Captain Marvel (books and MCU fan) and I can't even tell who the movie is for.

The benefit Marvel had with movies like Iron Man is that audiences were anxious to see what the next movie was going to be about - because RDJ's performance and the movie was just a knock-out. They evolved with Captain America leaving us with cool cliffhangers wondering what was going to come next.

Flash forward to the modern MCU - was Captain Marvel's screen debut that powerful that you wondered what was up with her next appearance? I'd argue that it could have been - had they given her a proper follow-up in End Game. I loved End Game, but it didn't do anything for Captain Marvel except give her a great segment at the end - which I thought was cool, but not enough to make me wonder "what's next?".

Then they just let her fall by the wayside, and now bringing her back with a bunch of other knock-offs in some movie about something somewhere in space with a purple hammer. They didn't do enough, and I'm sad that Captain Marvel is going to get the axe after this, because the character isn't "bankable" - despite the fact that the people making the decisions are pretty much what is unbankable.

[Broke as a Joke]

I haven't been following this upcoming train wreck but what happened to Korvac?  I thought he was the villain in this.

[media_junkie]

On 11/3/2023 at 3:00 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

I haven't been following this upcoming train wreck but what happened to Korvac?  I thought he was the villain in this.

Nope, gender-swapped Ronin the Accuser-girl boss is the villain.

Edited November 3, 2023 by media_junkie

[Beige]

Again, the major problem that Marvel continues to ignore is the intro of these characters.

Cap Marvel #1 - sure, wide exposure.

How many people are going to watch Secret Invasion, WandaVision and Ms Marvel seasons to know even the basics about who MR and KK are?

 

I'm in the tiny minority who liked Ms Marvel and WandaVision shows, but I'm not going to watch them again to remind myself of the backstory.

 

As an aside, I think WandaVision is even better on second viewing. Very clever show.

 

I couldn't do 2 episodes of SI before falling asleep.

 

Having to watch 20+ hrs of TV as a pre-requisite to know who the heck these people are is insane.

 

This movie will tank, and tank hard - because any target audience is diminished by not seeing the D+ shows.

 

[Dr. Balls]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:03 PM, media_junkie said:

Nope, gender-swapped Ronin the Accuser-girl boss is the villain.

The villain is some obscure Marvel character call Dar-Benn.

Seriously, out of all the worlds out there they go back to the Kree and give us a female with another hammer. What about Deathbird? Moonstone? How abouuuuuuuuuuuuut Rogue? What about introducing the Shi'ar Empire? Some semblance of cinematic ambition would inject a lot into the MCU at this point.

[Cman429]

The first one only made huge bank because they shoehorned it before Avengers and nobody was gonna skip the last chapter before that, no matter how irrelevant. It was a terrible atrocious movie that would’ve done Eternals/Blue Beetle level business if not for that.

I get a kick at how even Marvel has no idea what to do with this movie. All the original trailers presented it as a light hearted romp about three mismatched girlfriends zooming through wacky space adventures. Then it dawned on them nobody watched their awful D+ shows nor care about the other Marvels so every recent trailer focuses just on Brie and tries to make it a space action movie. 

It has the stench of failure all over it and I actually applaud the director for being the first to throw Feige & his machine  under the bus instead of being a good soldier and going down with the ship.

[s-man]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:57 PM, Dr. Balls said:

The villain is some obscure Marvel character call Dar-Benn.

Seriously, out of all the worlds out there they go back to the Kree and give us a female with another hammer. What about Deathbird? Moonstone? How abouuuuuuuuuuuuut Rogue? What about introducing the Shi'ar Empire? Some semblance of cinematic ambition would inject a lot into the MCU at this point.

Agreed.  This is probably just  but it may have given them an opportunity to back door in the Phoenix saga once again and this time do right.

[TupennyConan]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:47 AM, paperheart said:

tween girls 

From what I can tell, this is the target demographic for all MCU product post-Endgame. The given middle age male fanbase was mocked and ridiculed, the existing male heroes were satirized, sidelined, and gender-swapped, all in an effort to win the target demographic, and of course, to defeat oppression, which is the authentic, real-world enemy, as Namor lectured to us in WAKANDA for-naught. The mandate behind the target demographic was social justice.    

Pre-Endgame, the MCU was able to diversify its given middle age male fanbase with this demographic. Young women were all-in. Everyone was all-in. There was social unity, happiness, and heroism. Massive profits, too. It was a great achievement. The audience, the world, the MCU wasn't split into warring camps by Disney in some self-destructive attempt to purify the social order.    

Post-Endgame, the given middle age male fanbase has learned they're the problem, somehow, someway, and no cares about the MCU, most especially young women. 

[Bosco685]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:28 AM, TupennyConan said:

Post-Endgame, the given middle age male fanbase has learned they're the problem, somehow, someway, and no cares about the MCU, most especially young women. 

And that Marvel Studios paid $250M to drive home the point men want one thing - a horny green lady wanting to jump up and down on many of them while shouting, "I'm not proud of this!"

[drotto]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:28 AM, TupennyConan said:

From what I can tell, this is the target demographic for all MCU product post-Endgame. The given middle age male fanbase was mocked and ridiculed, the existing male heroes were satirized, sidelined, and gender-swapped, all in an effort to win the target demographic, and of course, to defeat oppression, which is the authentic, real-world enemy, as Namor lectured to us in WAKANDA for-naught. The mandate behind the target demographic was social justice.    

Pre-Endgame, the MCU was able to diversify its given middle age male fanbase with this demographic. Young women were all-in. Everyone was all-in. There was social unity, happiness, and heroism. Massive profits, too. It was a great achievement. The audience, the world, the MCU wasn't split into warring camps by Disney in some self-destructive attempt to purify the social order.    

Post-Endgame, the given middle age male fanbase has learned they're the problem, somehow, someway, and no cares about the MCU, most especially young women. 

The massive miscalculations made were two as far as I can see...

 

1. They thought they could make these changes without alienating the traditional audience.

2. That there was a tremendous untapped audience for these films beyond who was already watching, as long as we make it more for them. 

 

The reality turned out to be, the traditional audience liked their traditional characters. In addition, that was the audience most likely to see the films multiple times, and buy merchandise.

 

That untapped audience was either not really interested or not really there.  For the most part women that like these types of movies were already watching them, and did not like the changes either. For women that were not, no amount of change was going to get them to watch. For those they did attract, they were not going many times and they were not buying stuff.

 

Of course the open secrete is Marvel Comics have a wealth of all types of characters to draw upon, that did not require alterations to existing characters, or came from the infamous Marvel Now ear.

 

It is turning out to be a hard lesson.

Edited November 4, 2023 by drotto

[Dr. Balls]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:08 AM, drotto said:

The massive miscalculations made were two as far as I can see...

 

1. They thought they could make these changes without alienating the traditional audience.

2. That there was a tremendous untapped audience for these films beyond who was already watching, as long as we make it more for them.

Marvel's biggest misstep, IMHO. I don't think they understand that only a teenie tiny percentage of that audience is convertable to the "Nerd Sector". Meaning, you can convince people like my step-daughter to watch She-Hulk, but she is not going to go see Marvels. Or Inhumans. Or Spider-man. Or talk about it on social media. Or to her friends. Or generate "organic buzz".

She may only watch She-Hulk season 2 if she's bored. She's not a nerd, never will be no matter how UN-nerdy you try to make the MCU. Marvel seems to think that if you go to one or two movies that appeal to your personality, beliefs, social tones, etc, you're going to suddenly be a Comic Book Nerd.

They don't get it and they never have - they lucked out creating amazing, box office behemoths built on the shoulders of traditional fans - but they were always destined to make this fatal error because they only saw the money, not the audience. And now, we're at the end of a wonderful age of comic-centric movies and shows - as the momentum from Iron Man and Avengers winds down, they've alienated the people that loved them and failed to turn the mainstream audience into dedicated acolytes - there is a very small chance to recapture what they should have done in the beginning.

They missed a HUGE opportunity to bring in a larger percentage of the traditional fans by creating compelling comic book movies and honing their cinematic style to appeal to that crowd - rather than try to manufacture their own new audience, which was never going to happen.

[drotto]

On 11/4/2023 at 10:13 AM, Dr. Balls said:

Marvel's biggest misstep, IMHO. I don't think they understand that only a teenie tiny percentage of that audience is convertable to the "Nerd Sector". Meaning, you can convince people like my step-daughter to watch She-Hulk, but she is not going to go see Marvels. Or Inhumans. Or Spider-man. Or talk about it on social media. Or to her friends. Or generate "organic buzz".

She may only watch She-Hulk season 2 if she's bored. She's not a nerd, never will be no matter how UN-nerdy you try to make the MCU. Marvel seems to think that if you go to one or two movies that appeal to your personality, beliefs, social tones, etc, you're going to suddenly be a Comic Book Nerd.

They don't get it and they never have - they lucked out creating amazing, box office behemoths built on the shoulders of traditional fans - but they were always destined to make this fatal error because they only saw the money, not the audience. And now, we're at the end of a wonderful age of comic-centric movies and shows - as the momentum from Iron Man and Avengers winds down, they've alienated the people that loved them and failed to turn the mainstream audience into dedicated acolytes - there is a very small chance to recapture what they should have done in the beginning.

They missed a HUGE opportunity to bring in a larger percentage of the traditional fans by creating compelling comic book movies and honing their cinematic style to appeal to that crowd - rather than try to manufacture their own new audience, which was never going to happen.

The comic fans would come back, if they go back to soley making good movies, based on stories and characters they know and love.  The "normies" that got cought up in the hype and what became a cultural moment, will be much harder to recapture.