Pulitzer Prize Winning Maus Censored By Tennessee School District 6 6

[october]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:36 PM, VintageComics said:

 

Northern European societies seem to excel in this in ways that most of the West doesn't so the rest of the West uses censorship as a short cut.

 

Use of the Nazi flag, as well as Holocaust denial, are flat out illegal in several of those countries, so I wouldn't presume their tolerance. 

[VintageComics]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:37 PM, october said:

Not at all, but they made it far worse by giving these people a dirty little virtual basement where they can amp up the rhetoric, sharpen their knives, and goad the weakest among them to do some pretty horrible things. 

The root solution will always be as simple as having a solid family unit. You raise your kids well and they won't look for pots to stir. 

And Facebook is absolutely complicit for capitalizing on division. 

On 2/1/2022 at 9:37 PM, october said:

Sure. I'll pencil "hold mutibilliondollar international corporation accountable for their transgressions against society" in at 9 am tomorrow, right after I drop my kid off a kindergarten, but BEFORE I have my morning caffeine.  

If they're too big to be held accountable, I think it's safe to say they're too big. 

[VintageComics]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:41 PM, october said:

Use of the Nazi flag, as well as Holocaust denial, are flat out illegal in several of those countries, so I wouldn't presume their tolerance. 

I wasn't using them as examples of tolerant societies. I was using them as examples of societies with high standards living and education, which is why they're considered some of the best countries in the world to live in, and they seem to have a high level of voluntary civil obedience because of it, unless I'm mistaken. 

Censorship is a temporary band-aid. 

Having a good society is a long term solution to the root problem. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by VintageComics

[october]

On 2/1/2022 at 8:44 PM, VintageComics said:

I think it's safe to say they're too big. 

Oh, it's safe to say. 

[Terry JSA]

Huge W by this comic shop owner. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/02/01/maus-banned-higgins-comics-conspiracy/

[paqart]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:30 PM, Randall Dowling said:

Completely agree.  I personally think there's a high level of naivety among those that don't get this.  There have always been limits on free speech (fire in a theater, etc.).  But there are some things that should not be supported, encouraged or frankly allowed.  Pedophilia comes to mind as an example.  Does anyone really think there should be a place for people to discuss that?  

If your answer is yes, I really don't want to know you.

Right up until last year, I would have agreed with you. Not that there seem to be any limits on discussion of the subject you mentioned. Recent events make it clear that censorship can be fatal to life and liberty alike. In our present example, it has been fatal to liberty around the world and many lives have been lost because life-saving information has been suppressed.

[paqart]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:46 PM, VintageComics said:

I wasn't using them as examples of tolerant societies. I was using them as examples of societies with high standards living and education, which is why they're considered some of the best countries in the world to live in, and they seem to have a high level of voluntary civil obedience because of it, unless I'm mistaken. 

Censorship is a temporary band-aid. 

Having a good society is a long term solution to the root problem. 

I lived in the Netherlands for 12 years. In the Netherlands, not only is homeschooling illegal but many locals equate it with Nazism. Comparisons to WWII are considered extremely rude if unflattering. That is, if any aspect of behavior or society is compared to Nazi Germany. It is possible to go to jail for saying certain things in public. That said, the health care system is not excellent or free, though our press in America claims both. Their education system is free to students but the quality is questionable. The reason is that students are trained to covet mediocre performance, rather than to excel. A passing grade there is 60%, or a "6" as they call it. A 6 is the equivalent of a D- in America. Students think they've done well to get a 6 and are considered show-offs if they do better. Some do better regardless but credit goes to the student, not the system.

[paqart]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:20 PM, valiantman said:

The reality of the 21st century is that nothing can be banned like in the 20th century.  If your school bans Maus, just Google it. The irony is that Maus would not be in the headlines right now, if not for the banning.  So, instead of keeping children from finding Maus, the school board shoves it into everyone's news feed.  Google answers all the questions immediately.

The best way to bring attention to something is to tell people they can't have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

That's true for some things, not others. I sometimes write columns for a couple of publications. Part of the job requires research into the subjects I'm writing about. Over the last two years, I've noticed the phenomenon of disappearing articles. That is, an article I referenced earlier has disappeared when I try to look it up a few months later. Also, the top hits are heavily weighted in favor of one worldview, while opposition is at the other end of a very deep stack of hits, unlikely to be found unless very determined.

[paqart]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:44 PM, namisgr said:

This.  Deplatforming, because there's a distinction between censorship and limiting attention.  Freedom of speech is not freedom of reach.

 

Deplatforming is among the most cowardly and sinister tactics I've seen employed in recent years to silence opposition. It is at every level dishonorable. Any person who supports it contributes to the ruination of society. 

[paqart]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, october said:

I was specifically talking about social media, which is the primary recruiting engine for people like this. Free speech isn't implicated, since Facebook et al are private companies and not government entities. Constitutional protection applies to infringement by the latter, not the former.

The people who join causes like this aren't going to be swayed by rational argument. Do you really think balanced, factual debate can sway someone advocating for a race war? Or a pogrom? There's a limit to what ideas merit discourse, and as much as I want a free exchange of ideas, literal Nazism is well beyond the pale (ironic use of that idiom notwithstanding).

When Facebook and Twitter follow orders from government officials, as has been demonstrated, the companies become agents of the government and are bound to honor free speech protections. If they had wanted to remain free of those protections, they should not have made private arrangements whereby government officials could conveniently and covertly give them binding requests.

[VintageComics]

On 2/2/2022 at 12:03 AM, paqart said:

When Facebook and Twitter follow orders from government officials, as has been demonstrated, the companies become agents of the government and are bound to honor free speech protections. If they had wanted to remain free of those protections, they should not have made private arrangements whereby government officials could conveniently and covertly give them binding requests.

Watch it, you're going to be associated with me if you keep thinking like this and then it's over for you.

On 2/1/2022 at 11:50 PM, paqart said:

That's true for some things, not others. I sometimes write columns for a couple of publications. Part of the job requires research into the subjects I'm writing about. Over the last two years, I've noticed the phenomenon of disappearing articles. That is, an article I referenced earlier has disappeared when I try to look it up a few months later. Also, the top hits are heavily weighted in favor of one worldview, while opposition is at the other end of a very deep stack of hits, unlikely to be found unless very determined.

I too have noticed MANY things disappearing off the internet. Almost always weighted in one direction. 

On 2/1/2022 at 11:35 PM, paqart said:

Right up until last year, I would have agreed with you. Not that there seem to be any limits on discussion of the subject you mentioned. Recent events make it clear that censorship can be fatal to life and liberty alike. In our present example, it has been fatal to liberty around the world and many lives have been lost because life-saving information has been suppressed.

What has happened in the last two years in regards to censorship on the internet should have everyone quaking in their boots. These are truly dark times for freedom of speech, expression and information. Unfortunately, there are many even on these boards that welcomed it. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by VintageComics

[Cat]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:58 AM, The Meta said:

Next step should be to give a copy to every student in the school

I've seen 2 people post offers to donate $10,000 worth of copies to people with an address in the postcode affected. Hopefully those offers are genuine and parents of children at that school who can't otherwise afford it will take them up on the offer. 

[Lazyboy]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:35 PM, paqart said:

Right up until last year, I would have agreed with you. Not that there seem to be any limits on discussion of the subject you mentioned. Recent events make it clear that censorship can be fatal to life and liberty alike. In our present example, it has been fatal to liberty around the world and many lives have been lost because life-saving information has been suppressed.

What kind of life-saving information has been suppressed?

[october]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:03 PM, paqart said:

When Facebook and Twitter follow orders from government officials, as has been demonstrated, the companies become agents of the government and are bound to honor free speech protections. If they had wanted to remain free of those protections, they should not have made private arrangements whereby government officials could conveniently and covertly give them binding requests.

No clue what you are talking about here.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:20 PM, october said:

For someone who is as vociferously anti social media as you are in other threads, you take a surprisingly sanguine view here. Proceeding from the premise that Facebook (or whatever platform) functions as some grand marketplace of ideas in the Athenian tradition, where "good" ideas triumph over "bad ideas", is tragically flawed. Facebook isn't some virtual agora, it's a walkie-talkie used to directly connect every formerly isolated town crazy with other town crazies. It's a black hole of an echo chamber where people like those in the video can fall into and never emerge. This is an algorithmic reality. "User engagement" is achieved not by presenting conflicting views, but by reinforcing existing ones. It doesn't foster discourse, it does the opposite. It's the main driver for current extremism...and that's not an accident. 

Social media is nothing but a rock these people hide under, together.

So basically....a failure to foster productive discourse.

[Lord Gemini]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:15 PM, JJ-4 said:

Sorry, I'm always going to side with free speech regardless of platform (Facebook, Comic book message board, the local bar you drink at).  The cure for bad ideas are good ideas discussed openly and honestly, not acting like a dictator and wanting someone shut down / silenced / de-platformed.

 

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Except good ideas are not being discussed openly and honestly. The low IQ types are absorbing bad information and defending it with their lives...and ours. Misinformation like this should be removed.

[Lord Gemini]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:59 PM, paqart said:

Deplatforming is among the most cowardly and sinister tactics I've seen employed in recent years to silence opposition. It is at every level dishonorable. Any person who supports it contributes to the ruination of society. 

Right. 

[Lord Gemini]

On 2/1/2022 at 11:03 PM, paqart said:

When Facebook and Twitter follow orders from government officials, as has been demonstrated, the companies become agents of the government and are bound to honor free speech protections. If they had wanted to remain free of those protections, they should not have made private arrangements whereby government officials could conveniently and covertly give them binding requests.

Yup. Someone's been buying into the lies. Sorry, but when misinformation is being spread on a platform that costs millions of lives, the platform should seriously consider removing that nonsense.

[namisgr]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:41 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

So basically....a failure to foster productive discourse.

Quality levels of information, from strongest to weakest:

- Facts

- Generally accepted knowledge

- Unsettled issues

- Contrary to generally accepted knowledge

- Lies, propaganda, and falsehoods

Note that not all are deserving of the same reach of expression.  Indeed, 20th century history established that promotion of the lowest forms of information comes with profound dangers and is capable of destroying the fabric of entire nations and continents.  As Spiegelman and his work can attest.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by namisgr

[JJ-4]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:59 PM, paqart said:

Deplatforming is among the most cowardly and sinister tactics I've seen employed in recent years to silence opposition. It is at every level dishonorable. Any person who supports it contributes to the ruination of society. 

100%