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Heritage April Auction
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Started by Matches_Malone,

534 posts in this topic

batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 9:06 AM, delekkerste said:

There's only one thing that's for sure:  anything I consign will suck and underperform by a huge margin. It's like a law of nature or something.  

Story of my life !  I had CLINK reach out to me about selling a piece I have and In took a hard pass because

1. I am sure it would underperform

2. I would get 1099'd on it

3. What profits there were would be taxed at 41% (I live in a low state tax state)

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kbmcvay

kbmcvay

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 10:58 AM, tth2 said:

So if I'm reading your post correctly, then as a consignor I'm going exclusively with Heritage! 

So if this is all market manipulation by Heritage, why isn't every listing resulting in a similarly mindboggling price?  Why were there some results that not only did not blow people's minds, but actually disappointed?  For the love of god, man, why?!  Why?!?! 

I think any consigner would be foolish to go with anybody else at this point. Have you watched that video game video? If you think every Heritage auction is on the level (with no collusion, shilling or market manipulation)I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. 

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Phill the Governor

Phill the Governor

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 11:26 AM, Bill C said:

While I know HA has had questionable dealings in the video game market (and I dont doubt in some ways the OA market), I doubt Heritage plotted to have that Excalibur cover go so high in an attempt to make people think they should consign, as literally anything could hit near six figures.

Exactly.

The insidious thing about the shill bidding (that is NOT exclusive to video games. Illogical for anyone to think that they would do this on one thing but not another) is that it can be very, very difficult to know what has been shilled past a reasonable point. There is a very good chance that at least one or some bids on all/most of the items through their bidding activity are shilled. No one cares about those shill bids. The ones made to simply to keep the engine going on that listing while it's under FMV. It's not to say that every single item is underbid by the house either. I've seen many legitimate sales happen where there is a bidding war between two real collectors. But when, for example, you have a piece (at 28k FMV) where some dummy puts in an early bid at say 40k , and then it magically goes for 38-39k, that is NOT a coincidence.

The combination of real collectors with FOMO, people running the auction houses who are also collectors, etc.. really muddies the waters for what sales are real and which are beefed up and manipulated. As long as you don't go over your threshold for the price you're willing to pay you're good. Just remember the cardinal rule of auctions: NEVER put in an early bid. The house sees it and they WILL underbid you up to as much as they can get away with. And even if they "accidentally" win or purposefully win an item for a new record price, no sweat! They will sit on that thing, and it will pop up for sale again sometime in the next few months to a year or two- and this time likely at an even higher price. In fact, chances are it will conveniently be over the year mark, because of the difference they pay on taxes for income tax vs. capital gains is less.

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Ted_L

Ted_L

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 11:20 AM, batman_fan said:

Story of my life !  I had CLINK reach out to me about selling a piece I have and In took a hard pass because

1. I am sure it would underperform

2. I would get 1099'd on it

3. What profits there were would be taxed at 41% (I live in a low state tax state)

I'm pretty sure no true auction houses issue 1099's at the moment as it's not currently a legal requirement unless they're paying you via an online service like Paypal.  Obviously you're supposed to be paying taxes on auction income, but that's currently self reported unless something has changed very recently. I've sold via Heritage multiple times and they've never asked for a SSN or tax ID and I'm guessing it's the same for CLinK and ComicConnect (but please correct me if if that's not the case).

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 11:01 AM, Ted_L said:

I'm pretty sure no true auction houses issue 1099's at the moment as it's not currently a legal requirement unless they're paying you via an online service like Paypal.  Obviously you're supposed to be paying taxes on auction income, but that's currently self reported unless something has changed very recently. I've sold via Heritage multiple times and they've never asked for a SSN or tax ID and I'm guessing it's the same for CLinK and ComicConnect (but please correct me if if that's not the case).

Ebay does.  Ebay Rules

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Ted_L

Ted_L

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2022 at 1:23 PM, Bronty said:

"true auction house"

Ha yeah.  This is a good illustration of how the world works.  Mom and Pop sellers trying to get rid of their junk using eBay, Etsy and other sites are now subject to 1099's.  Wealthy collectors tend to use physical auction houses (Sotheby's, Christie's,etc.) which are currently exempt from 1099 reporting.  For the moment, Heritage and other collectibles auction houses benefit from this exemption, but I'm sure the people in charge will eventually figure out the right loophole to fully exempt the rich while requiring reporting for regular collectors.   

Edited by Ted_L
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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2022 at 2:26 PM, Ted_L said:

Ha yeah.  This is a good illustration of how the world works.  Mom and Pop sellers trying to get rid of their junk using eBay, Etsy and other sites are now subject to 1099's.  Wealthy collectors tend to use physical auction houses (Sotheby's, Christie's,etc.) which are currently exempt from 1099 reporting.  For the moment, Heritage and other collectibles auction houses benefit from this exemption, but I'm sure the people in charge will eventually figure out the right loophole to fully exempt the rich while requiring reporting for regular collectors.   

I look at it differently.   

Remember that ebay doesn't want to be what you and I want it to be.

It wants to be amazon.... it wants the seller selling brand new $100 widgets all day long.    The seller selling those $100 widgets or $20 phone cases is running a business.    You have them issued a 1099 to force them to report.

You don't have that type of seller at play at heritage. 

Now, things might change and whatever, but I don't look at ebay reporting as going after mom and pop, I see it as going after the person selling brand new widgets, with mom and pop selling used golf clubs as the unfortunate collateral damage.    Now, I'm not in the US so I may be missing something in how I'm looking at it, but at first blush that's my sense.

 

Edited by Bronty
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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 11:06 PM, delekkerste said:

There's only one thing that's for sure:  anything I consign will suck and underperform by a huge margin. It's like a law of nature or something.  

What did you do to PO Halperin?  According to a number of posters in this thread, there are actually no bona fide sales on Heritage.  So in your case, clearly he must be manipulating the market to suppress your prices.

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 11:23 PM, kbmcvay said:

If you think every Heritage auction is on the level (with no collusion, shilling or market manipulation)I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. 

My question to you, which you didn't answer, is why are some on the level and some not?  How does Heritage or Halperin decide what to manipulate?  Why not just jack up everything to $100k, if it's that easy, because 20% of $100k is more than 20% of $20k.

Inquiring minds want to know!

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Ted_L

Ted_L

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 2:32 PM, Bronty said:

I look at it differently.

Remember that ebay doesn't want to be what you and I want it to be.

It wants to be amazon.... it wants the seller selling brand new $100 widgets all day long.    The seller selling those $100 widgets or $20 phone cases is running a business.    You have them issued a 1099 to force them to report.

You don't have that type of seller at play at heritage. 

Now, things might change and whatever, but I don't look at ebay reporting as going after mom and pop, I see it as going after the person selling brand new widgets, with mom and pop as the unfortunate collateral damage.

 

Yeah that makes sense, although I do think eBay initially did try to fight the new reporting requirements.  Ultimately it does benefit them though because it makes it that much harder for any new players in the market to compete given the cost of complying with 1099 reporting + state/local sales tax requirements. I guessing this is yet another of many factors driving sellers away from eBay to Heritage.

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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2022 at 2:37 PM, tth2 said:

What did you do to PO Halperin?  According to a number of posters in this thread, there are actually no bona fide sales on Heritage.  So in your case, clearly he must be manipulating the market to suppress your prices.

I looked over JHalpe.com for fun the other day, and the volume is hard to take in, but if you use the search feature, two things become apparent:

1. He has a massive collection of grails that have their roots in the 1950s - EC, Mad, Frazetta, Harvey.   

2. Comparatively, he has very few grails that DON'T fit into 1. above.    Search kirby or ditko and you get almost no hits.   

People can draw their own conclusions but it sure looks to me like someone aggressively collecting the stuff that he grew up with and that means the most to him, and only dabbling, at best (relatively speaking of course) in items outside his main interests.    Which is... exactly like a lot of us?

It does make me wonder, too, if he didn't win the 78k Johnny Craig story, and the Mad 9 cover.   Those are right in his wheelhouse.

Edited by Bronty
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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 2:45 PM, Msgarmar said:

Somebody please help me understand $360,000 for this. 
 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-uncanny-x-men-271-story-page-4-original-art-marvel-1990-/a/7270-94121.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

1*gPitog5-CaRfSin7yue4fw.jpeg

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kbmcvay

kbmcvay

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/10/2022 at 2:42 PM, tth2 said:

My question to you, which you didn't answer, is why are some on the level and some not?  How does Heritage or Halperin decide what to manipulate?  Why not just jack up everything to $100k, if it's that easy, because 20% of $100k is more than 20% of $20k.

Inquiring minds want to know!

Let’s apply this to the video game market. Why did they choose to manipulate SMB on the NES and not every other game? Why not Pitfall or Donkey Kong too? They should do every game by your logic…but they don’t. 
 

Listen, it’s fairly obvious that some manipulation is occurring by Heritage based on real analysis and reporting whether in this particular auction or not (seems fishy for sure). Dealers like Romitaman bragged about shilling in their auctions but all of these records are genuine.

Edited by kbmcvay
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KingOfRulers

KingOfRulers

Posted
Posted
On 4/10/2022 at 4:41 PM, Peter G said:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/comic-strip-art/john-romita-sr-amazing-spider-man-sunday-comic-strip-original-art-dated-7-3-77-register-an/a/7270-97551.s

 

:Rocket::Rocket::Rocket:

I was hoping to win that piece. It was sitting at under $4k until today. I was interested until it got above $11k or so.

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