Question About How the Hobby Views Restoration 6 6

[Happy Noodle Boy]

So, about restoration...

A hypothetical: you come across two copies of the same raw silver age book; let's say Daredevil #7. Both appear to be in Very Fine condition. For the sake of argument let's say they both pretty much look identical. But one copy has some slight color touch--someone filled in a couple of spine ticks with black marker. The other copy has someone's name written in black marker on the cover. Why is it that the book with some slight color touch is considered less valuable than the same book with someone's name written on the cover? Both books have technically been defaced, but one has far less value in the hobby once CGC affixes its purple label of doom to it. I understand that for CGC, trying to deduct for a name written on a cover would be subjective, but it still seems very strange to me that of the two hypothetical books, both of which have been defaced, only one is being singled out for it, and that one (to me at least, I know some collectors find names written on covers to be charming) is far more aesthetically pleasing than the other. It seems to me that the INTENT (i.e., restoration) behind the damage done to a book should be irrelevant to CGC's grading. Both books have been written on and both books should be marked down for it.  

 

[KCOComics]

 

I think intent is the critical aspect. When DD7 came out, no one thought it would be a collectors item.  So a kid writing their name on the cover was just what kids did. It's part of a books history / journey, similar to date stamps. 

Someone carefully filling in spine tics, in most cases, is specifically doing it with the intent of improving the books appearance to increase the value of a collectible.  

While I don't view restoration as harshly as some do, I do think there is a distinction between a 10 year old writing his name on a toy and an adult manipulating a book to try to resell it. 

Keep in mind undisclosed restoration was (and still is to a degree) pretty common practice in the days before CGC.  So the intent of many restorers was too deceive buyers and pass the books off as unrestored. And that's why the purple label was so important. To stop the deception. 

[eastriver400]

Yup.

One is deception, once rampant pre 3rd party grading (and despicable deception at that…. for the most part it was adult dealers ripping off kids…. How low can you get?).

The other is innocent.

[Jayman]

The thing is, in the above scenario, that the two books are now NOT both in the VF range. The book with the CT spine ticks would drop down in grade accordingly if they were still visible. The book with the writing on the cover structurally has the nicer spine. The writing while unsightly, does not hide any faults on the book. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/13/2022 at 2:21 AM, Mark Warren said:

Why is it that the book with some slight color touch is considered less valuable than the same book with someone's name written on the cover?

I will pay more for the restored comic book in this context.

[Grendel72]

For me which book is more original ? Definitely the one without the restoration.  I'm not personally against restoration as I own several PLODS. Some books wouldn't survive without restoration or conservation. I own books with brittle pages that have been restored. I'm fine with that. But give me a AF 15 5.0 anyday over a 8.0 restored. The 5.0 doesn't need any work done to preserve its life. 

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

On 4/13/2022 at 2:42 AM, KCOComics said:

 

I think intent is the critical aspect.

This.

 

***I will never purchase a purple label

[wombat]

Part of it may also be the visibility factor. Lets say you crack the book out. You may or may not notice the restoration. You should notice the writing. Personally if it was a book I wanted that was normally out of my price range I would take whichever one was cheaper. 

[D84]

This will upset people, but I think restoration removal has the same intent as undisclosed restoration. The book is altered a second time to raise the monetary value.

[Axelrod]

The answer to the title question is:  This hobby no likey restoration.

[MattTheDuck]

On 4/13/2022 at 7:31 AM, Axelrod said:

The answer to the title question is:  This hobby no likey restoration.

I think this is generally true, but - as this thread demonstrates - there are collectors who don't absolutely rule out a book with restoration.  As also noted above, the important thing is that any restoration is disclosed so a collector can make an informed decision on a book.

[badback83]

I don’t rule out buying a restored book if it’s one that’s difficult to find or one that in blue label is out of my price range.  Usually the two go together, as a lot of books even in 2.0 range are out of my budget.  For me this only applies to GA.  I have no interest in restored SA.

[badback83]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:25 AM, D84 said:

This will upset people, but I think restoration removal has the same intent as undisclosed restoration. The book is altered a second time to raise the monetary value.

I have passed on books that I really wanted because of color touch scraped off.  In a lot of cases, it looks really bad.  I’d much rather have the book restored.  It is what it is.  Leave it alone.

[KCOComics]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:25 AM, D84 said:

This will upset people, but I think restoration removal has the same intent as undisclosed restoration. The book is altered a second time to raise the monetary value.

I agree with this. 

I don't like it when books have CT removed.

The act of removing CT is far more harmful to a comic book than adding CT.  And the market is so "label focused" that people will pay more all day every day for a scrapped up, cut up blue label, than a very pretty purple label. It incentives scraping the heck out of these books. 

I bought a restored FF1 recently. It had some CT removed along the spine  and there was still obvious and poorly done CT in other areas. I worked with Kenny Sanderson and had to make a choice.... Keep hacking up the book to have an ugly copy that is worth more. Or have Kenny fix the CT and make a beautiful copy that is worth less. 

I had him fix the CT and do it right.  It's worth less, but I'll likely never own my dream FF1 so I really wanted a beautiful copy I'll enjoy looking at. 

[supapimp]

As long as the book isn’t trimmed 

[Happy Noodle Boy]

Thanks all for the very informative comments. I now understand CGC's point of view when it comes to discouraging undisclosed restoration. For myself I hate color touch for the same reason I hate names and date stamps on covers: they're like graffiti on the book.

 

Here's where I bewilder people: I recently purchased a restored Young Allies # 12 from MyComicShop. It looked like a fine  or fine minus but was graded at a 3.5 and priced as such because the back cover had some trimming (also a staple was replaced and there were some tear seals to the cover and some interior pages.) The back cover was a full-page illustrated ad that didn't extend all the way to the edge of the page so the trim was 1/4 inch of essentially blank paper. I scooped the book up in a second. The idea of being able to own a Schomburg Young Allies cover in apparent Fine condition was incredible to me and I never would have gone after one otherwise. If the book had color touch I wouldn't have purchased it. Because for me color touch means the book is no longer all-original. With color touch, the book becomes a "Schomburg + Some Guy" cover. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Mark Warren

[shadroch]

I have no problem with restoration as long as it is disclosed and doesn't involve trimming. I think most of the hobby had a kneejerk reaction to CGC putting restored books into purple labels. I own a purple Avengers 1, a Superman 14, X-Men 1 and GS 1, and a purple BB28.  Last week I bought a purple label Batman  3 off these boards. Of my personal graded comics, maybe 20% are purple labels. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:25 AM, D84 said:

This will upset people, but I think restoration removal has the same intent as undisclosed restoration. The book is altered a second time to raise the monetary value.

[Happy Noodle Boy]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:29 AM, Hook, Line, and Sinker said:

 pressing is restoration too 

I agree with this; in fact it is by definition restoration. Too bad CGC doesn't give it a purple label as it would save me some money when I buy them!

[Happy Noodle Boy]

On 4/13/2022 at 12:05 PM, Hook, Line, and Sinker said:

Same goes for trimming.

Let me rephrase: what I meant is that with color touch there are parts of the book that are not original. With a trimmed book you can't say that. Yes, a very, very tiny percentage of the matter of the book is missing, but the 99.9% of the book that is left is all-original.

I wouldn't buy a trimmed book where the trim affected the cover art. If the art extended all the way to the edge of the cover and the cover was trimmed I wouldn't purchase it. But a back cover ad? I can live with losing 1/4 inch of that. We all have our preferences...

Edited April 13, 2022 by Mark Warren