C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[kav]

On 8/10/2022 at 11:27 PM, greggy said:

@kav

Bye @kav

 

mike-

[wormboy]

Honest question: How on earth did black flag add an acetate cover so that the edges line up perfectly with the book?

Comic book covers are folded and trimmed during production to ensure the edges are aligned with the interior, but these were added by some dude with a stapler. 

Can you imagine trying to fold a sheet of plastic perfectly in half, staple it to an existing comic and have all the edges magically line up with the book/interior for a Mint 10.0 copy? 

 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:01 AM, wormboy said:

Can you imagine trying to fold a sheet of plastic perfectly in half, staple it to an existing comic and have all the edges magically line up with the book/interior for a Mint 10.0 copy? 

I can imagine a 100% failure rate if I tried.

What's the latest on all this now, anyway. Has there been any further response from CGC? 

[wormboy]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:07 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I can imagine a 100% failure rate if I tried.

What's the latest on all this now, anyway. Has there been any further response from CGC? 

Negative. But the flash flood of negative feedback must be overwhelming and isn’t letting up.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:10 AM, wormboy said:

Negative. But the flash flood of negative feedback must be overwhelming and isn’t letting up.

Can't be much fun being in a spotlight that fierce, can it. 

[wormboy]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:13 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Can't be much fun being in a spotlight that fierce, can it. 

No, but at this point they deserve it. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:15 AM, wormboy said:

No, but at this point they deserve it. 

Indeed. Hard on all the decent employees who would have had nothing to do with any of it though. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:01 AM, wormboy said:

Honest question: How on earth did black flag add an acetate cover so that the edges line up perfectly with the book?

Comic book covers are folded and trimmed during production to ensure the edges are aligned with the interior, but these were added by some dude with a stapler. 

Can you imagine trying to fold a sheet of plastic perfectly in half, staple it to an existing comic and have all the edges magically line up with the book/interior for a Mint 10.0 copy? 

 

 

 

Makes you wonder if they ordered them oversized and trimmed them to fit.. 

[ExNihilo]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:45 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Makes you wonder if they ordered them oversized and trimmed them to fit.. 

That's exactly how I would do it.

[davet75]

After reading almost 90 pages of furor, debate, and speculation, I think I speak for an entire generation of comic collector when I say, "I had no f'ing idea that anyone still buys modern comics"

Edited August 11, 2022 by davet75

[Coverless 9.8]

With regard to the acetate controversy, I'm calling for greater transparency!    

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:40 PM, ExNihilo said:

No one remarqued anything.  Allegedly Clayton "drew" the acetate cover and that was mass produced and added to the original Clayton Crain drawn variant.  I say "drew" because it's basically a USA stamp with some digital stripes.  And maybe the only art is the flag that replaces Miles holding the mask.

I was making a comparison. 

 

[TTony]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:01 AM, wormboy said:

Honest question: How on earth did black flag add an acetate cover so that the edges line up perfectly with the book?

Comic book covers are folded and trimmed during production to ensure the edges are aligned with the interior, but these were added by some dude with a stapler. 

Can you imagine trying to fold a sheet of plastic perfectly in half, staple it to an existing comic and have all the edges magically line up with the book/interior for a Mint 10.0 copy? 

 

 

 

If only we could figure out their secret...

[MGH]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:05 PM, davet75 said:

After reading almost 90 pages of furor, debate, and speculation, I think I speak for an entire generation of comic collector when I say, "I had no f'ing idea that anyone still buys modern comics"

I don't know why people chase variants.. Especially over hyped ones with artificial print limits to try and push interest 

 

There's  a few moderns im  enjoying actually  reading ( *gasp*) 

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/10/2022 at 11:19 PM, FFB said:

I have a law degree and 25 years of practice.  Some opinions are less relevant than others.  

Of course you do.

I'm sure Marvel is looking up your number as we speak.  You know, because of your experience in comic book forums. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/10/2022 at 11:34 PM, Black_Adam said:

This thread is already at 86 pages!?! 

 

Yea, but most of it is goofy pictures and guys calling each others' names. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:07 AM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

You still don't get that it has nothing to do with what the art is. It's that it wasn't authorized by Marvel, but Blag Flag is pretending like this is an official edition.

That's not true.  He stated from the beginning he made sure the art didn't infringe on any copyrighted property.  That's not what someone says if they're pretending it's official. 

[peted76]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:30 AM, Sigur Ros said:

That's not true.  He stated from the beginning he made sure the art didn't infringe on any copyrighted property.  That's not what someone says if they're pretending it's official. 

He's changed the image of an official comic and derogated the comic and the Marvel brand. It's like someone changing the coke tag line to 'In Coke we intrust' and making money off it.. you think the Coke laywers would let that slide? 

Edit - .. well to be fair.. I guess we'll find out. I'm not sure they'll follow it up, but if I were Black Flag I would be sweating right about now.

Edited August 11, 2022 by peted76

[MGH]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:30 PM, Sigur Ros said:

That's not true.  He stated from the beginning he made sure the art didn't infringe on any copyrighted property.  That's not what someone says if they're pretending it's official. 

He probably needs to check where getting his legal advice from. 

Watching that video  made it looked more like he was making assumption he was in the clear  because he didn't use copyrighted IP on his acetate but ignored the fact he then produced 750 of them  stuck it onto 750 comics - whose IP is  owned by a  another publisher-  without approval to  turn a profit. 

if you go to print  making your own product by modifying  someone's IP without permission or license  you are in the firing line for number of potential claims. 

I'm speaking from position of being in a company that had to settle an IP claim for misrepresenting a brand in a marketing image that had less exposure than this book  

[Skwerl]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:16 PM, FFB said:

It is still infringement if you create a derivative work, which this most certainly is.  And Marvel will probably send a C&D letter because these publishers are accustomed to doing exactly that every time someone infringes a trademark or copyright.  It doesn't matter how much money the person made; they do it as a matter of course.  We're likely concerned with copyright infringement here, but for trademark infringement, you have to send a C&D letter or you may risk losing or weakening your rights in the trademark down the line.  

Bottom line is that the amount of money made or not made by Black Flag is not going to be a determining factor in whether or not they get a C&D letter.  If they pull the acetate versions before the next show, you'll know they got a letter from Marvel.  

Unfortunately I was made an expert in copyright infringement law back in 2008, and... no, nah. You can't say it "most certainly" is anything in this case. This would have to be settled in court. And the terms of the original agreement for these exclusives would have to be looked at. There seem to be legally valid arguments on either side. To a judge that doesn't know anything about comic books, it could be argued that Black Flag simply re-packaged something they had every right to sell. Now, that all said, I think there are no ethically valid arguments on Black Flag's side, and I would love to see them smacked real hard on both wrists for this, because it's bootlegging and it's bs and it's horrible and I'm not defending them at all on this. They can eat all the . But "derivative work" doesn't mean what you think it means. Marvel can surely send a C&D, because anyone can for anything, and they could sue Black Flag, because anyone can sue anyone for anything. But you can't say this is a clear cut case of criminal (as opposed to far murkier civil) copyright infringement when Black Flag did have an agreement to publish these comics. Then they modified them, which is probably/hopefully a violation of their license. But then that's not an infringement case.