C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[bellrules]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:57 PM, CGC Mike said:

We appreciate everyone being patient with our follow-up regarding the Clayton Crain acetate covers. After discussions this past week, CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative. This also applies to the Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4 that sold in C2E2. The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.  For members who have already submitted copies of the Ultimate Fallout issue to CGC, we will extend an opportunity to have Mr. Crain’s signature applied to their copies so they receive the Qualified Signature Series label. If a copy does not exhibit Mr. Crain’s witnessed signature, the book will receive a qualified grade. 

Going forward, CGC will only certify artist-created covers that are first approved by CGC, and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label. The cover must be created by a published artist.

Side question, why are inserts that are pulled out of comics (destroying them in the process) like Sonic, MASK, Masters of the Universe, getting grades? Without the associated book, they are essentially incomplete. 

[Darkmind]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:03 PM, fastballspecial said:

How is your risk any different than anyone else when they submit?  

I submitted the copies to support Mission 22 in charity auctions.  After everything came to light about the issues with the book and the way Black Flag handled the release, the book became toxic, and community members began attacking others.  Right after C2E2 I called requesting an appeal to cancel the submission because I no longer felt like auctioning off the books for Mission 22 would be a healthy decision.

 

How is my risk any different?  Its not.  But that doesn't change my request to cancel, no matter what iteration of label decision they are on.  This is the third now?  Since the book dropped that Friday. 

[CGC Mike]

To those that have asked me questions.  I will not be able to answer any of them. Sorry.

[Darkmind]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:16 PM, CGC Mike said:

To those that have asked me questions.  I will not be able to answer any of them. Sorry.

Do you have a contact at CGC that can good sir?

[DoctorWyoming1]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:12 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

By grading the acetate...they are able to bring the grade up on the actual book. 
 

Why wait forever to have your books pressed....

Want a grade 

Just acetate!!!

 

THIS remains a key issue. It is not difficult at all to create something that will garner a 10 from CGC. Just cut out a sheet of steel, sand the edges and corners with 3000 grade grit until it can cut through anything like hot butter, and attach it to your book of choice.

(Superman comes to mind as a natural).

 

9.9s and 10s are naturally rare as it is difficult to find comic book paper that can be printed and stapled into a book without even the slightest tears/imperfections. Once anyone starts to mess with this process, things become suspect.  (I mean, how hard would it be for Marvel to produce issues by hand, insuring the creation of 10s? They could even market them as Marvel, Hand Made (tm))

When the company doing the grading actually becomes involved, things get even worse.

 

By the way, anyone who puts out a Man of Steel 1 with a steel cover at least owes me a copy.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by DoctorWyoming1

[DoctorWyoming1]

I am glad that CGC has responded and at least back tracked a little, if not all the way back. The company that outright refuses to certify a Stan Lee autograph unless they witnessed it themselves (I mean, c'mon, the guy signed a million things in his life, not hard to verify his signature without the need to literally witness it...) ought to consider whether they want to relinquish such a high standard over the labeling of one REPRINT book. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by DoctorWyoming1

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:31 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:

I am glad that CGC has responded and at least back tracked a little, if not all the way back. The company that outright refuses to certify a Stan Lee autograph unless the witnessed themselves (I mean, c'mon, the guy signed a million things in his life, not hard to verify his signature without the need to literally witness it...) ought to consider whether they want to relinquish such a high standard over the labeling of one REPRINT book. 

Tbh I can hear the conversation now.

3 person conversation. 1 are you going to grade my acetate differently?  Well we have to do something, are you going to refund buyers of it if we do, to meet with less harm for everyone? 

Let's meet in the middle, well grade your acetate cover differently and you can do a free signing so that we all "save face" rather than wash our hands and refund.

Edited August 23, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[DoctorWyoming1]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:37 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Let's meet in the middle, well grade your acetate cover differently and you can do a free signing so that we all "save face" rather than wash our hands and refund.

Yes, I agree with your take. To be fair, it is difficult to concede to being wrong. Most people react as CGC has - by 'standing by' their decision, then, backtracking a bit, then, moving on to trying to find some face saving compromise.

As another boardie noted, if only they had some sort of role model, a HERO type if you will, that they could call upon as a guide. Someone who would make it clear that your first principles are ALWAYS what you should fall back on when facing any tough decision.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:44 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:

Yes, I agree with your take. To be fair, it is difficult to concede to being wrong. Most people react as CGC has - by 'standing by' their decision, then, backtracking a bit, then, moving on to trying to find some face saving compromise.

As another boardie noted, if only they had some sort of role model, a HERO type if you will, that they could call upon as a guide. Someone who would make it clear that your first principles are ALWAYS what you should fall back on when facing any tough decision.

Well I'll back track a little too.

I said three parties in the conversation

On 8/22/2022 at 9:37 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Tbh I can hear the conversation now.

3 person conversation. 1 are you going to grade my acetate differently?  Well we have to do something, are you going to refund buyers of it if we do, to meet with less harm for everyone? 

Let's meet in the middle, well grade your acetate cover differently and you can do a free signing so that we all "save face" rather than wash our hands and refund.

Clearly crain and cgc are offering something, there is only the red flag of the third party that hasn't made any concessions and that is the black flag....

[Buzzetta]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:04 PM, thehumantorch said:

Do tell?

PM Forthcoming - I cannot post or cut and paste publicly what they wrote.  If anyone wants feel free to share. 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Buzzetta

[I like pie]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:05 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I thought 30 were already on the census.

Have they been removing them?

I looked at it the first time today and there was only 10.

[jsilverjanet]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:49 PM, mattn792 said:

Finally, GLOD's for this frankencrap.

Though I do find that I'm still wondering how 10 copies of three different books mutilated by acetate managed to get the exact same grade distribution, including mint grades.

Yes that still requires an answer 

[JC25427N]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:05 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I thought 30 were already on the census.

Have they been removing them?

There were 10 graded of each of the 3 blackflag acetate variants

Edited August 23, 2022 by JC25427N

[jsilverjanet]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:05 PM, Axelrod said:

Credit where credit is due, this at least recognizes and addresses 1/2 the issues raised. 

Radio silence as to how the books got the numerical grades they got  in the first place continues, but that was pretty much always going to be the case.

Agreed 

let’s not let them off the hook on that 

[jsilverjanet]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:09 PM, bellrules said:

Side question, why are inserts that are pulled out of comics (destroying them in the process) like Sonic, MASK, Masters of the Universe, getting grades? Without the associated book, they are essentially incomplete. 

Great question, Start a thread 

[Larryw7]

Thanks, Mike. I know you're not responsible for anything that happened but you're the one who has to take the heat for it.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/22/2022 at 11:40 PM, JC25427N said:

There were 10 graded of each of the 3 blackflag acetate variants

Thank you 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by THE_BEYONDER

[Cat]

Which Crain signature from the menu do they get? 

[Monstertruck97]

With all due respect in regards to Stan Lee, that decision is fact wise. The yellow label program and witnessing the signed items work.

While he may have signed a million signatures, there are three million forgeries out there, including ones with phony Stan Lee LOA's and authentic LOA's attached to phony items as his signature in all of his stages is quite simple to duplicate.

I know some sellers who have sold thousands of fake signed books worth nothing and sold them off at $20-40 per with a signature on it.

Heck, signed books purchased at the booths of artists who aren't present get the green label.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Monstertruck97

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:31 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:

I am glad that CGC has responded and at least back tracked a little, if not all the way back. The company that outright refuses to certify a Stan Lee autograph unless they witnessed it themselves (I mean, c'mon, the guy signed a million things in his life, not hard to verify his signature without the need to literally witness it...) ought to consider whether they want to relinquish such a high standard over the labeling of one REPRINT book. 

Honestly, I think their Signature Series policy is how it should be, and one of the few policies I agree with.