CGC- Explain how Black Flag unreleased books already have identical census and only 10s? 3 3

[Motor City Rob]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:36 PM, MB1952 said:

 

Unfortunately because it's kind of true.  You may not like hearing this, but most greedy people are hard workers.

[Ryan.]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:19 AM, Motor City Rob said:

Unfortunately because it's kind of true.  You may not like hearing this, but most greedy people are hard workers.

Must I choose between being greedy, lazy or a hard worker? What if I want to be all three?

[jsilverjanet]

On 8/12/2022 at 6:19 AM, Ryan. said:

I'll be at the Boston show today. If anyone wants to discuss life, philosophy and the meaning of acetate in today's society, come find me. I'll be the one in a t-shirt and wearing a backpack. Can't miss me.

Lol 

I keep waiting for someone to do a fashion show parody of “con attire”

or better yet a “con makeover”

I often want to ask people, “why this shirt?”

 

[Dick Pontoon]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:19 AM, Ryan. said:

I'll be at the Boston show today. If anyone wants to discuss life, philosophy and the meaning of acetate in today's society, come find me. I'll be the one in a t-shirt and wearing a backpack. Can't miss me.

Can't we just talk about cosplay bewbs?

[Sigur Ros]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:32 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Is it possible to do 9.9 pre-screens?

No.   But apparently it's possible to pre-grade 9.9's.

CGC:  "send the books,  we've got the labels ready to go" 

[Ryan.]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:26 AM, Dick Pontoon said:

Can't we just talk about cosplay bewbs?

Acetate bewb overlays 

[shadroch]

So the company that assigned fake grades to invisable comics now appears to be selling grades to fake comics. 

I often say that if you lower your expectations enough, CGC will eventually meet your standards.

I expect nothing from them and they still disappoint me. I stopped sending them books years ago, but bought and sold their product.  As of this moment, I'm reevaluating  my holdings.   The fish rots from the head down.

Edited August 12, 2022 by shadroch

[wiparker824]

On 8/12/2022 at 3:10 AM, Ryan. said:

There are many layers to this acetate comic drama, from the pull of YouTube personalities in the community to CGC grading bootleg comics as blue labels; however, to me, the biggest concern by far is the possibility that CGC is selling grades. If there's even a hint of that possibility it immediately invalidates their entire business model.

This has always been my fear slabbing books. Majority of books I slab I plan to sell, whether it’s immediately or long term I plan to sell. So, I’ve always feared one day some scandal involving grade fixing will come out and invalidate every book ever graded. Meaning all the money invested in grading fees on slabbed books is down the drain. Which is what would happen if at any time someone could actually produce proof of pay for grade scheme. Don’t get me wrong, this is not proof, it’s highly suspicious but not proof. But it is still  alarming because it strongly implies it’s happening in my mind, at which point all it takes is some texts or something to leak from a disgruntled employee and we get to a point of having said proof very easily. I hope I’m wrong, and I hope it’s all just very coincidental that these books got the same grade distribution. But yes I agree that this is the most concerning part of this debacle. I can avoid acetate covers (it’s not my thing regardless of label color) but I, like many others on this forum, have a ton of books in slabs, so I can’t avoid a massive hit to CGC’s overall grading integrity.

[DavidTheDavid]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:51 AM, wiparker824 said:

This has always been my fear slabbing books. Majority of books I slab I plan to sell, whether it’s immediately or long term I plan to sell. So, I’ve always feared one day some scandal involving grade fixing will come out and invalidate every book ever graded. Meaning all the money invested in grading fees on slabbed books is down the drain. Which is what would happen if at any time someone could actually produce proof of pay for grade scheme. Don’t get me wrong, this is not proof, it’s highly suspicious but not proof. But it is still  alarming because it strongly implies it’s happening in my mind, at which point all it takes is some texts or something to leak from a disgruntled employee and we get to a point of having said proof very easily. I hope I’m wrong, and I hope it’s all just very coincidental that these books got the same grade distribution. But yes I agree that this is the most concerning part of this debacle. I can avoid acetate covers (it’s not my thing regardless of label color) but I, like many others on this forum, have a ton of books in slabs, so I can’t avoid a massive hit to CGC’s overall grading integrity.

Well put.

[djpinkpanther67]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:42 PM, Black_Adam said:

 

CGC and their current competition all seem to be going sideways. Maybe this will open the door for a new player to emerge...

Waitaminnit! Didn't Steve Borock just partner up with a company that currently grades thousands of comics and is renowned for their tight grading!? 

If another 3rd party grading company enters the market, it won’t be MCS.

I have heard things…

 

[shadroch]

I think it is time for Disney/Marvel to start slabbing their own books and eliminate the third party companies who do nothing but leech away money that otherwise might be spent on more Disney products.  Before, it wasn't in their best interest but now that CGC is abetting in the production of counterfiet Disney products, they should be treated like every other bootlegger, and Disney take the slabbing inhouse. 

Adopt the good ,better best model- a 9.0 copy will cost X, a 9.4 will be 3X and a 9.8 will be 10X.  All comics come in a sealed mylar, with an optional hard case available. 

I don't think this is something that an apology can fix. This is a "heads must roll moment" with whomever okayed this deal getting sent packing.  I don't think Black Rock paid big bucks to let some dunderhead kill it's reputation in one blunderful move. 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by shadroch

[wiparker824]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:39 AM, shadroch said:

I think it is time for Disney/Marvel to start slabbing their own books and eliminate the third party companies who do nothing but leech away money that otherwise might be spent on more Disney products.  Before, it wasn't in their best interest but now that CGC is abetting in the production of counterfiet Disney products, they should be treated like every other bootlegger, and Disney take the slabbing inhouse. 

Adopt the good ,better best model- a 9.0 copy will cost X, a 9.4 will be 3X and a 9.8 will be 10X.  All comics come in a sealed mylar, with an optional hard case available. 

I don't think this is something that an apology can fix. This is a "heads must roll moment" with whomever okayed this deal getting sent packing.  I don't think Black Rock paid big bucks to let some dunderhead kill it's reputation in one blunderful move. 

 

The entire point of 3rd party is to eliminate the bias a 1st party would have in grading their own products… now I get that the counterpoint is that isn’t working if CGC is cutting deals with retailers for grades but I don’t think the answer is to move to a 1st party grading system. Just can’t really see that adding any value to the hobby. I know people get silenced here for discussing CGC’s   3rd party alternatives but my guess is one of those guys (or a new player) would take the market share if CGC was to squander it away with scandals like this. That seems much more likely than Disney/Marvel bulldozing their way into this space that they don’t really belong in nor do they seem to care to belong in.

[jaybuck43]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:39 AM, shadroch said:

I think it is time for Disney/Marvel to start slabbing their own books and eliminate the third party companies who do nothing but leech away money that otherwise might be spent on more Disney products.  Before, it wasn't in their best interest but now that CGC is abetting in the production of counterfiet Disney products, they should be treated like every other bootlegger, and Disney take the slabbing inhouse. 

Adopt the good ,better best model- a 9.0 copy will cost X, a 9.4 will be 3X and a 9.8 will be 10X.  All comics come in a sealed mylar, with an optional hard case available. 

I don't think this is something that an apology can fix. This is a "heads must roll moment" with whomever okayed this deal getting sent packing.  I don't think Black Rock paid big bucks to let some dunderhead kill it's reputation in one blunderful move. 

 

Naw, Blackstone paid big bucks to cash shareholder checks.  People don't understand how these groups operate.  They don't know the industry.  They don't care.  They model out the income potential on the company, they acquire a majority share.  They keep everyone on who was involved, and they go off to the sunset to count stacks of cash (and once in a while show up for a status meeting).  No-one lost their job when Blackstone bought the company, heck Salzberg still owns a sizable minority share. But leadership are still the same group of people as before, who now have a mandate to squeeze us for a few extra bucks (which is why you're now seeing the proliferation of private signings, those things are licenses to print cash).  

[jaybuck43]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:00 AM, wiparker824 said:

The entire point of 3rd party is to eliminate the bias a 1st party would have in grading their own products… now I get that the counterpoint is that isn’t working if CGC is cutting deals with retailers for grades but I don’t think the answer is to move to a 1st party grading system. Just can’t really see that adding any value to the hobby. I know people get silenced here for discussing CGC’s   3rd party alternatives but my guess is one of those guys (or a new player) would take the market share if CGC was to squander it away with scandals like this. That seems much more likely than Disney/Marvel bulldozing their way into this space that they don’t really belong in nor do they seem to care to belong in.

The problem will always be Chicken and Egg.  As long as The Bubble™ remains in tact, most people are just grabbing keys not knowing what the heck they're buying.  CGC stood for something in the collectors community, and after the great crash following the 90s debacle, the collectors community is basically what kept comics going.  CGC emerged as a needed industry because you were buying things in mail order and "the internet" with no idea what you would receive.  Suddenly you had a guarantee from a third party that gave their neutral opinion on it.  Great.  But then the bubble reemerged, books became hot again, and now we have to remember that we collectors are but a tiny Island in the current ocean of Cool Books™ and speculators.  Flippers are looking to make a buck, and will do what profits them most.  If CGC is selling for a higher value than others, then that's where people will submit.  Thats what happened when Voldy opened.  There was an initial rush as people went to check them out, plus they respected SB and wanted to support him.  Within a year the market had spoken and comparable CGC books sold for higher prices.  People went back to submitting books mostly to CGC, Voldy got sold to Beckett, and SB has moved on (best wishes to him in his future endeavors).  The only thing that will get CGC to change is hitting them in the pocket book, the only way that happens is if people stop submitting, and the only way THAT happens is if there is a sea change in value where a competitors books sell for the same or more than comparable CGC books.  That's when the flipper money moves.  But until that day, we have to sit back and take it.

[october]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:16 AM, jaybuck43 said:

The problem will always be Chicken and Egg.  As long as The Bubble™ remains in tact, most people are just grabbing keys not knowing what the heck they're buying.  CGC stood for something in the collectors community, and after the great crash following the 90s debacle, the collectors community is basically what kept comics going.  CGC emerged as a needed industry because you were buying things in mail order and "the internet" with no idea what you would receive.  Suddenly you had a guarantee from a third party that gave their neutral opinion on it.  Great.  But then the bubble reemerged, books became hot again, and now we have to remember that we collectors are but a tiny Island in the current ocean of Cool Books™ and speculators.  Flippers are looking to make a buck, and will do what profits them most.  If CGC is selling for a higher value than others, then that's where people will submit.  Thats what happened when Voldy opened.  There was an initial rush as people went to check them out, plus they respected SB and wanted to support him.  Within a year the market had spoken and comparable CGC books sold for higher prices.  People went back to submitting books mostly to CGC, Voldy got sold to Beckett, and SB has moved on (best wishes to him in his future endeavors).  The only thing that will get CGC to change is hitting them in the pocket book, the only way that happens is if people stop submitting, and the only way THAT happens is if there is a sea change in value where a competitors books sell for the same or more than comparable CGC books.  That's when the flipper money moves.  But until that day, we have to sit back and take it.

This guy gets it. 

I will say that there are a lot of headwinds that didn't exist a year or two ago. The MCU is floundering, inflation continues unabated, interest rates are rising, alternative assets are declining, and the first cracks are starting to show in the comic value wall. Collectors are the backbone of this hobby, but speculators and investibois are the flatulent poison gas that inflates these bubbles to gargantuan proportions. But once the money spigot starts to turn off they will jump off the hobby like fleas off a dead dog. It leads to a negative feedback loop where the ones left standing are the ones who were here in the first place. "Influencers" can only spin their web of BS for so long before even the dimmest of bulbs catches on.  

[jaybuck43]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:26 AM, october said:

This guy gets it. 

I will say that there are a lot of headwinds that didn't exist a year or two ago. The MCU is floundering, inflation continues unabated, interest rates are rising, alternative assets are declining, and the first cracks are starting to show in the comic value wall. Collectors are the backbone of this hobby, but speculators and investibois are the flatulent poison gas that inflates these bubbles to gargantuan proportions. But once the money spigot starts to turn off they will jump off the hobby like fleas off a dead dog. It leads to a negative feedback loop where the ones left standing are the ones who were here in the first place. "Influencers" can only spin their web of BS for so long before even the dimmest of bulbs catches on.  

My buddy owns a Comic book store that also is big with TCG gamers.  When Pokemon reexploded all the sudden he was getting like 20 phone calls a day asking for packs (of the new stuff).  He told them he has them, but that anyone over the age of 18 can only buy one pack a week.  His wife was like, why dont you just sell them and order more, why turn away the money?  His response "Because kids will come in here looking to buy cards, and there won't be any for them to buy.  After a couple times of not being able to find them, they will stop coming in and look elsewhere.  Meanwhile the bubble will pop, the adults will stop coming (because they were ONLY buying to catch the wave of speculation) and they wont support my store, and the kids who WOULD still be coming in to buy cards from me won't because they've moved on to find another place.  Plus, I'll be stuck with a ton of deadstock."  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/12/2022 at 6:22 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I keep waiting for someone to do a fashion show parody of “con attire”

[theCapraAegagrus]

[october]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:40 AM, jaybuck43 said:

My buddy owns a Comic book store that also is big with TCG gamers.  When Pokemon reexploded all the sudden he was getting like 20 phone calls a day asking for packs (of the new stuff).  He told them he has them, but that anyone over the age of 18 can only buy one pack a week.  His wife was like, why dont you just sell them and order more, why turn away the money?  His response "Because kids will come in here looking to buy cards, and there won't be any for them to buy.  After a couple times of not being able to find them, they will stop coming in and look elsewhere.  Meanwhile the bubble will pop, the adults will stop coming (because they were ONLY buying to catch the wave of speculation) and they wont support my store, and the kids who WOULD still be coming in to buy cards from me won't because they've moved on to find another place.  Plus, I'll be stuck with a ton of deadstock."  

He has foresight that a lot of store owners don't. Seems like a lot of them are caught up in breaking mania, selling truckloads to those fools, while forgetting the customer base that got them through the lean years prior to the pandemic collectible boom. Who will be left once people move onto the next thing? Collectors have long memories. Shaft them during the salad days and they will return the favor during the famine. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by october

[BriD.]

I wonder how many more of these got submitted for grading at c2e2. Not sure what they'll do with them at this point, but if they continue with their stance that these are ok to grade with blue labels I'm curious to see what grades they get. I guess that's a long way off to find out.