CGC Members Choice: Most Single Undervalued GA Comic book your opinion and mine! 7 7

[sfcityduck]

If we're talking first appearances, how about the JUNE 1934 Good Housekeeping?

Edited October 21, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Prince Namor]

On 10/16/2022 at 1:29 PM, bounty_coder said:

To me Young Allies #1 is the quintessential World War 2 funny book. While it is not a cheap book, I have always felt it doesn’t get the respect that it deserves. It has been a goal of mine to get my first ever copy of YA1 and I finally achieved that this year.

1. 1st Appearance and Origin of Young Allies. 
2. 1st (?) and only (?) Red Skull and Hitler cover?
3. 1st Team-up of Captain America and Human Torch 
4. Wall to wall nearly 64 pages of Young Allies Nazi bashing with most pages containing either Red Skull or Hitler.
5. Electric ⚡️ Jack Kirby WWII splashes in spades. 

 

 

 

Wouldn't this also be Timely/Marvel's first official 'team' book? 

[Cat-Man_America]

I've made a case for reconsidering two undervalued GA books since Mitch launched this idea, which is a good one.  That said, if there's a weakness to presenting a single book as undervalued, it's that we all know of more than one worthy of reevaluation.  Keeping that in mind at some point I may offer a third title that deserves more attention (...but I'll keep everyone guessing awhile longer).

[bronze johnny]

Whenever I see the question about an undervalued comic book, it’s easy to come up with “nuance” books like a character’s appearing in an in house ad prior to the actual first appearance of that character in a comic book story. A nuance book tends to be the focus for the advanced collector of a specified area in comics. That focus takes the collector deeper into the area and in this case, the Golden Age (which ended with the defeat of the last of the Axis Powers in 1945). What needs to be further pointed out is that the value of a nuanced book that has the character’s in house ad appearance is really being compared to the issue with that character’s defined first appearance. Superman is an example because what’s really said about his first in house ad appearance in terms of value and it being undervalued is when it’s primarily compared to the value of Action Comics 1. The same can be said about Timely’s “lesser tiered” books like Young Allies and how it’s really compared to the Marvel Mystery Comics and Captain America titles. DC golden age collectors and those focused on Fawcetts, Fox, Nedor, and etc. are not nuanced Timely collectors comparing values between first and second tier Timely books. The other significant point here is what the impact a book had on the industry and those that followed it. None of the books mentioned come anywhere near the impact Crime Does Not Pay 22 had on the entire history of comic books and is one major reason why it’s the most undervalued GA key. 

[sfcityduck]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

If we're talking first appearances, how about the May 1934 Good Housekeeping?

I am serious, the very first appearance of the one of the most important pop culture and comic characters of all time.  Thought by many to have first appeared in film, the reality is that this is his first appearance (pre-dates the cartoon).  Nothing - in any medium - came earlier. First Donald Duck and super undervalued:

[MusterMark]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:42 AM, sfcityduck said:

I am serious, the very first appearance of the one of the most important pop culture and comic characters of all time.  Thought by many to have first appeared in film, the reality is that this is his first appearance (pre-dates the cartoon).  Nothing - in any medium - came earlier. First Donald Duck and super undervalued:

It's June 1934

[sfcityduck]

On 10/21/2022 at 8:46 AM, MusterMark said:

It's June 1934

Thx!  

[bounty_coder]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:58 PM, Prince Namor said:

Wouldn't this also be Timely/Marvel's first official 'team' book? 

I think it would be...Young Allies #1 would be considered the first Timely/Marvel book dedicated to a Team of Timely/Marvel Characters. 

[bounty_coder]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

If we're talking first appearances, how about the JUNE 1934 Good Housekeeping?

 

On 10/21/2022 at 7:42 AM, sfcityduck said:

I am serious, the very first appearance of the one of the most important pop culture and comic characters of all time.  Thought by many to have first appeared in film, the reality is that this is his first appearance (pre-dates the cartoon).  Nothing - in any medium - came earlier. First Donald Duck and super undervalued:

This is a good one, and one that very few know of (outside of our elite comic knowledge circles). 

The one difficulty with this book is that it was a comic strip; inserted into the pages of a Published Magazine.  The fact that CGC doesn't grade them also makes it difficult to have a good "index" on whether it is valued appropriately or not.  But, I definitely do agree it is probably "undervalued" due to being "under-known".  Though I think the format does turn a majority of comic collectors off especially since it cannot be "slabbed".

With that said, I do have a piggy-back entry to yours @sfcityduck 

The Adventures of Mickey Mouse Book 1 (David McKay, 1931) First Disney book by strict definition with a first printing of 50,000 copies.

• Illustrated text refers to Clarabelle Cow as "Carolyn" and Horace Horsecollar as "Henry".
• The name "Donald Duck" appears with a non-costumed generic duck on back cover and inside, not in the context of the character that later debuted in The Wise Little Hen.
• Check out this writeup by the D23 (Official Disney Fan Club) site: https://d23.com/donald-duck-early-appearance/

 

11 Copies Graded.  Top VF/NM 9.0 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by bounty_coder

[Sauce Dog]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:42 AM, sfcityduck said:

the reality is that this is his first appearance (pre-dates the cartoon).  

The film appeared before this publication though (unless I'm missing something and this 'June' cover date was released earlier in the year), as it was shown starting May 3, 1934 (though the films official release date was June 7th and 9th, the latter which was also made to be Donald's birthday). 

[sfcityduck]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:56 PM, Sauce Dog said:

The film appeared before this publication though (unless I'm missing something and this 'June' cover date was released earlier in the year), as it was shown starting May 3, 1934 (though the films official release date was June 7th and 9th, the latter which was also made to be Donald's birthday). 

The publication date was in advance of the cover date and the film.

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

On 10/15/2022 at 9:36 AM, ChillMan said:

I'm bringing us all up.

If 1 of dozens of grade-9 (2nd highest) 1952 Mickey Mantle rookies can sell for $7M...I say that several comics should be worth $20M.

You disagree?

Thing is that the very high number of minty uncirculated Mantle baseball cards meant there would inevitably be a very high number of dealers touting it as a card that is worth a very high number of dollars.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/15/2022 at 9:36 AM, ChillMan said:

I'm bringing us all up.

If 1 of dozens of grade-9 (2nd highest) 1952 Mickey Mantle rookies can sell for $7M...I say that several comics should be worth $20M.

You disagree?

Baseball cards are not comparable. Prices are crazy and outrageous for what are essentially modern manufactured collectibles.  That market is broken, or the fans have lost all sense (or have no monetary worries).  You really can't compare different markets that way.  Otherwise, comparing comic books to non-comic books you'd be concluding that a lot of obscure comics with zero pop culture significance are way outrageously over-priced.  Sure, we like comcs, but there are many books that are scarcer with much greater pop culture significance that don't come close to touching the prices for comics we say today. I don't think sports fans have shown much interest in sports comics either.

A better example as an analogy to comic books than baseball cards, especially for GGA collectors, would be pulps, pbs, men's magazines, pin-up calendars, etc. - all of which have been left in the dust by certain GGA drawn covers (not even the real thing) that sell for incredibly high prices by comparison. (If you put a gun to my head and asked me what genre is most likely to crash for comics - I'd pick GGA.).  So these kinds of analogies aren't very persuasive to me.

Every market is different. 

. 

[whomerjay]

On 10/23/2022 at 4:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

 

A better example as an analogy to comic books than baseball cards, especially for GGA collectors, would be pulps, pbs, men's magazines, pin-up calendars, etc. - all of which have been left in the dust by certain GGA drawn covers (not even the real thing) that sell for incredibly high prices by comparison. (If you put a gun to my head and asked me what genre is most likely to crash for comics - I'd pick GGA.).  So these kinds of analogies aren't very persuasive to me.

Every market is different. 

. 

Was with you until here.

[Sauce Dog]

On 10/24/2022 at 2:46 PM, whomerjay said:

Was with you until here.

Same, I think the vast majority of GA books are over priced and have questionable demand as it is within the hobby, but when it comes to good girl art that is something I find is the easiest to move and has the most universal demand. That cross hobby demand is key factor, as the people I personally know who want GGA are NOT exclusively comic book collectors, but rather its a venn diagram of art collectors, history nerds, writers, graphic designers...specifically women - the vast majority being who I sell to and have asked for specific GGA books for display (and are also hunting down Pulps for the same reason, though most of seem to be ao3 writers and other spicy OA content creators, most interested in vintage Enoch Bolles art). Most women I've sold such things to are well under 30/40, and they typically would never flock to boards like this or even Facebook comic groups (so the visibility of the demographic is often ignored by your run of the mill comic collector)
 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Sauce Dog

[sfcityduck]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:46 AM, whomerjay said:

Was with you until here.

Just a throw away opinion.  Many comic book genres are clearly market-stable in pricing - Funny animals, Ducks, Westerns, TV/Movie, strip reprints, etc. - and I don't see that changing much up or down.

Then there are the hot genres: Superheros, PCH, Romance, GGA, etc.  Of those, I just think GGA is the most vulnerable. Why? Because there's a lot of GGA out there in other formats cheaper (pulps, pbs, calendars, men's magazines, etc.) and, aside from some great artists, the general selling point is just drawings of pretty girls on covers. But we live in a world where pictures of pretty girls - from innocent to decadent to pornographic - are in abundant supply. This type of nostalgia is, I think, one that is least likely to drive younger collectors to collecting.  And to be clear, I'm talking pure GGA. Obviously, comics across the genres have sexy women on the covers. I'm focused on the books that seem entirely focused on the pretty girls - most obviously the many books about women hanging out in the jungle in some form of bathing suit made from a cat or the more cartoony books that focus on pretty H.S. teen-agers (nah - that's not creepy at all!) like the Betty and Veronica covers. (If you're into pretty girls, it may be hard as time goes by to impress your friends with Betty and Veronica or the many jungle girls if you and your friends grew up going on the internet and watching famous beautiful women doing much more risque things.) But, as always, just an opinion predicting the future and I could be wrong.  Just seems to me that superheroes, as an obvious example, will have a much stronger run over time than GGA. So too with other genres that have something going for them beyond just a pretty girl drawing on the cover. I dunno. I bought the Detective 1000 Artgerm cover (line drawn) b/c I thought it was a cool example of retro GGA - but my college age son and his friends aren't going to be inspired to buy a comic b/c of a cover like that. They see that kind of imagery all the time just about everywhere. It's not going to give them nostalgia.  Maybe in the future, the hot collectible will NFTs of Instagram models. 

Having said that, I'm not talking short term. I'm talking mid to longer term, as the older generations of collectors age out. I don't see an impending comic crash in any genre at the moment. I do see corrections for certain recent purchases.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:06 PM, Sauce Dog said:

 I personally know who want GGA are NOT exclusively comic book collectors, but rather its a venn diagram of art collectors, history nerds, writers, graphic designers...specifically women - the vast majority being who I sell to and have asked for specific GGA books for display (and are also hunting down Pulps for the same reason, though most of seem to be ao3 writers and other spicy OA content creators, most interested in vintage Enoch Bolles art). 
 

It sounds like you are describing a younger version of a friend and former colleague of mine who collects sexist pop culture. She collects GGA (including some Bill Ward original art) in an ironic sense. It is not out of nostalgia (really its out of criticism of that nostalgia) and it is not because she loves pictures of sexy women (her husband is a talented guitarist in local bands and creative guy for ad agency) but out of a feminist sensibility.  Very similar to why I collect anti-communist and A-Bomb material. But, she gets most of her collection as a thrifter and flea market hound.

I don't think those buyers are going to be enough to sustain the high prices we see for certain GGA pieces on into the future. 

My friend had a blog entitled "Mystery Date" riffing on that concept and has written three books: "Pink Think: Becoming a Woman in Many Uneasy Lessons" which she calls a pop-culture history of the perilous path to achieving the feminine ideal; "College Girls: Bluestockings, Sex Kittens, and Co-eds, Then and Now"; and "Swimming in the Steno Pool: A Retro Guide to Making It in the Office." 

Here's a description of her PInk Think book:

Quote

 

Deluged by persuasive advertisements and meticulous (though often misguided) advice experts, women from the 1940s to the 1970s were coaxed to "think pink" when they thought of what it meant to be a woman. Attaining feminine perfection meant conforming to a mythical standard, one that would come wrapped in an adorable pink package, if those cunning marketers were to be believed. With wise humor and a savvy eye for curious, absurd, and at times wildly funny period artifacts, Lynn Peril gathers here the memorabilia of the era — from kitschy board games and lunch boxes to outdated advice books and health pamphlets — and reminds us how media messages have long endeavored to shape women's behavior and self-image, with varying degrees of success.

Vividly illustrated with photographs of vintage paraphernalia, this entertaining social history revisits the nostalgic past, but only to offer a refreshing message to women who lived through those years as well as those who are coming of age now.

 

 

If interested click here: Lynn Peril (Author of Pink Think) (goodreads.com)

Edited October 24, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Sauce Dog]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:26 PM, sfcityduck said:

It sounds like you are describing a younger version of a friend and former colleague of mine who collects sexist pop culture. She collects GGA (including some Bill Ward original art) in an ironic sense. It is not out of nostalgia (really its out of criticism of that nostalgia) and it is not because she loves pictures of sexy women (her husband is a talented guitarist in local bands and creative guy for ad agency) but out of a feminist sensibility.  Very similar to why I collect anti-communist and A-Bomb material. But, she gets most of her collection as a thrifter and flea market hound.

I don't think those buyers are going to be enough to sustain the high prices we see for certain GGA pieces on into the future. 

My friend had a blog entitled "Mystery Date" riffing on that concept and has written three books: "Pink Think: Becoming a Woman in Many Uneasy Lessons" which she calls a pop-culture history of the perilous path to achieving the feminine ideal; "College Girls: Bluestockings, Sex Kittens, and Co-eds, Then and Now"; and "Swimming in the Steno Pool: A Retro Guide to Making It in the Office." 

Here's a description of her PInk Think book:

 

If interested click here: Lynn Peril (Author of Pink Think) (goodreads.com)

Yup, though I've found the ones I've dealt with actively don't want sexist or problematic books, avoiding ones that outright depict sexual harassment or problematic dynamics, but rather are 'spicy' and enjoyable in their own right (barn make out sessions, fun text). I do think the prices are still high for many of these books and do see them correcting, but the demand is there so perhaps it will enough to sustain it at more reasonable price points.

[Professor K]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:42 AM, sfcityduck said:

I am serious, the very first appearance of the one of the most important pop culture and comic characters of all time.  Thought by many to have first appeared in film, the reality is that this is his first appearance (pre-dates the cartoon).  Nothing - in any medium - came earlier. First Donald Duck and super undervalued:

I thought you were joking at first but I looked it up. Yeah, Nice. It really is the first appearance. The first cartoon he was in was The Wise Little Hen -  May 1934, which is Spring. The first comic strip he was in was Sept. 1934. 

[N e r V]

On 10/24/2022 at 1:16 PM, sfcityduck said:

Just a throw away opinion.  Many comic book genres are clearly market-stable in pricing - Funny animals, Ducks, Westerns, TV/Movie, strip reprints, etc. - and I don't see that changing much up or down.

Then there are the hot genres: Superheros, PCH, Romance, GGA, etc.  Of those, I just think GGA is the most vulnerable. Why? Because there's a lot of GGA out there in other formats cheaper (pulps, pbs, calendars, men's magazines, etc.) and, aside from some great artists, the general selling point is just drawings of pretty girls on covers. But we live in a world where pictures of pretty girls - from innocent to decadent to pornographic - are in abundant supply. This type of nostalgia is, I think, one that is least likely to drive younger collectors to collecting.  And to be clear, I'm talking pure GGA. Obviously, comics across the genres have sexy women on the covers. I'm focused on the books that seem entirely focused on the pretty girls - most obviously the many books about women hanging out in the jungle in some form of bathing suit made from a cat or the more cartoony books that focus on pretty H.S. teen-agers (nah - that's not creepy at all!) like the Betty and Veronica covers. (If you're into pretty girls, it may be hard as time goes by to impress your friends with Betty and Veronica or the many jungle girls if you and your friends grew up going on the internet and watching famous beautiful women doing much more risque things.) But, as always, just an opinion predicting the future and I could be wrong.  Just seems to me that superheroes, as an obvious example, will have a much stronger run over time than GGA. So too with other genres that have something going for them beyond just a pretty girl drawing on the cover. I dunno. I bought the Detective 1000 Artgerm cover (line drawn) b/c I thought it was a cool example of retro GGA - but my college age son and his friends aren't going to be inspired to buy a comic b/c of a cover like that. They see that kind of imagery all the time just about everywhere. It's not going to give them nostalgia.  Maybe in the future, the hot collectible will NFTs of Instagram models. 

Having said that, I'm not talking short term. I'm talking mid to longer term, as the older generations of collectors age out. I don't see an impending comic crash in any genre at the moment. I do see corrections for certain recent purchases.

Can’t say I disagree with your thoughts towards the possible future of GGA but it never really occurred to me that Archie comics would be in there much. I collect them because I grew up reading them and like certain artists and living by the beach my whole life made the beach covers more popular with me to collect and honestly a girl in a bikini or lightly dressed in the beach communities here is more or less the norm since I could walk. What else would someone wear at the beach? I have noticed certain issues blowing up to my surprise like Betty & Veronica #40 which although a nice cover in the run I have a hard time finding it “sexy”. There’s more demand for the beach covers overall but not really super high priced or anything unless it’s something like the “beat off” or “pearl necklace” covers. Archie books today are doing ok thanks to modern tv exposure as well. So are you thinking any GGA books are at risk even if the market is artist driven like Matt Baker?