Comicmylars vs the late, great John Verzyl 5 5

[Cobbledclam]

On 10/20/2022 at 4:01 PM, RareHighGrade said:

I never found that John Verzyl had "reasonable" prices, but he had an inventory of amazing books that could not be found elsewhere, and he was one of the warmest and kindest people I ever met.

Yes, as I stated with the business aspect with John it was yay or nay and zero hard feelings on either side. We then had enjoyable talk about other life stuff.

 

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/20/2022 at 12:57 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

I’m sorry you feel every dealer is a sleazebag from the start. That’s a depressing place to be coming from lol.

Many of the best-known dealers probably have some people skills and maybe even some integrity (or at least the ability to feign integrity), otherwise they wouldn't be very successful. However, when it comes to small-time dealers, I've noticed that many of them have personalities that would prevent them from finding any kind of success in the corporate world—which is probably why they're self-employed.

It isn't as easy to get away with things like amateur resto and trimming these days, but the sleazebags have found other tactics; like getting fake sales into GPA to pump up prices, shill bidding on auction items; buying the top-five graded copies of a scarce book and cracking out the top four and sending in the labels so they can sell the fifth-highest-graded copy as the highest-graded copy, only to turn around and slab the erstwhile fourth-highest-graded copy in order to sell THAT one as the highest graded copy, etc.

There are con artists in every hobby and every business, though, so why should comics be an exception? Most people are restrained somewhat by a conscience, but these guys are conscienceless; they're like flesh-eating bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. You can try to mitigate the damage that they do, but you can never really get rid of them.

[LDarkseid1]

On 10/20/2022 at 6:43 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Many of the best-known dealers probably have some people skills and maybe even some integrity (or at least the ability to feign integrity), otherwise they wouldn't be very successful. However, when it comes to small-time dealers, I've noticed that many of them have personalities that would prevent them from finding any kind of success in the corporate world—which is probably why they're self-employed.

It isn't as easy to get away with things like amateur resto and trimming these days, but the sleazebags have found other tactics; like getting fake sales into GPA to pump up prices, shill bidding on auction items; buying the top-five graded copies of a scarce book and cracking out the top four and sending in the labels so they can sell the fifth-highest-graded copy as the highest-graded copy, only to turn around and slab the erstwhile fourth-highest-graded copy in order to sell THAT one as the highest graded copy, etc.

There are con artists in every hobby and every business, though, so why should comics be an exception? Most people are restrained somewhat by a conscience, but these guys are conscienceless; they're like flesh-eating bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. You can try to mitigate the damage that they do, but you can never really get rid of them.

Who are we talking about here?

[Cat-Man_America]

On 10/20/2022 at 6:01 PM, RareHighGrade said:

I never found that John Verzyl had "reasonable" prices, but he had an inventory of amazing books that could not be found elsewhere, and he was one of the warmest and kindest people I ever met.

Absolutely! Not taking away from other collector/dealers, John's passion for the hobby knew few peers.

Coin tosses with this gentleman ...bartering for that "elusive" reasonable price... was one of my two great joys at SDCC; you know the other.

A toast to my late friend and a rare photo from one of his legendary house calls to Casa del Gato... 

[Flex Mentallo]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:34 PM, MrBedrock said:

Me too. Heck, even when I am talking to myself I am suspicious of my motives.

I'm suspicious of your motives when you have me as a  guest in your home, feed me good food, introduce me to your wonderful friends, chauffeur  me around Houston, and sell or trade me books at fair and reasonable prices.

Twice.

I may never forgive you - unless you come to Manchester.

Twice.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Flex Mentallo

[KCOComics]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:29 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

Absolutely! Not taking away from other collector/dealers, John's passion for the hobby knew few peers.

Coin tosses with this gentleman ...bartering for that "elusive" reasonable price... was one of my two great joys at SDCC; you know the other.

A toast to my late friend and a rare photo from one of his legendary house calls to Casa del Gato... 

I like your shirt! 

John's isn't bad either. 

[MrBedrock]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:13 AM, Flex Mentallo said:

I may never forgive you - unless you come to Manchester.

[woowoo]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:29 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

Absolutely! Not taking away from other collector/dealers, John's passion for the hobby knew few peers.

Coin tosses with this gentleman ...bartering for that "elusive" reasonable price... was one of my two great joys at SDCC; you know the other.

A toast to my late friend and a rare photo from one of his legendary house calls to Casa del Gato... 

[tth2]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:02 AM, blazingbob said:

Wow,  Not sure what to say on this post.

You thought I should've continued dealing with Roter? 

Don't take it personally, Bob.  It comes with the territory in any business that is fundamentally adverserial, which comic dealing most definitely is.  Then compound that with the fact that so many dealers are under capitalized and seemingly perpetually living hand to mouth and hustling.

I'm no stranger to being on the other side of this.  Most people assume lawyers are sleazebags.  There are a whole lot more negative jokes about lawyers than comic dealers.  Never lost any sleep over it.

[esquirecomics]

On 10/20/2022 at 7:01 PM, RareHighGrade said:

I never found that John Verzyl had "reasonable" prices, but he had an inventory of amazing books that could not be found elsewhere, and he was one of the warmest and kindest people I ever met.

Agree 100%. 

[Robot Man]

Man, I've known John for like forever. I met him at the LA Shrine shows back in the late 1970’s. Back when you could buy a Bat #1 for $2K! I have always found his prices a bit, how you say "Aggressive"? But there were very few dealers who had his vast amount of stock and such a positive attitude to the hobby. I could rarely afford much from him but that never stopped us talking books like a couple of geeks. 

My favorite purchase from John was this book. He knew how bad I wanted one and kept it aside for me at one of these shows. Was it "reasonable"? Not really but I felt I got a very fair deal on it and was so appreciative that he thought of me and held it for me. It has certainly proved to be a reasonable price over time!

Still miss seeing him...

Thought you might enjoy seeing this little bit of old comic book history. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Robot Man

[Bookery]

On 10/21/2022 at 11:06 AM, tth2 said:

It comes with the territory in any business that is fundamentally adverserial, which comic dealing most definitely is. 

Why?  If you go in with an adversarial attitude, then yes, it's probably going to be difficult to make a deal.  Like any business deal, when done properly, it is a win-win for both parties.  If I value x-amount of money more than a book I have, and you agree to pay it, we have a deal.  If you value the book more than x-amount of money, we have a deal.  I'm happy.  You're happy.  How is that any different than you buying groceries?  Items that are worth it to you, you buy.  Those that aren't, you skip.  In fact... it could be argued grocery shopping is more adversarial, since you have to have food to survive.  You don't have to have comics, thus you have far more options.

People are all wrapped up into thinking money is magical.  It's just a convenient way to exchange goods... no more, no less.  It's easier than exchanging chickens or sacks of flour.  Customers have this attitude that they are doing me a favor by giving me money for something I own, as if money is intrinsically worth more than a physical entity.  It's not.  If the balance between goods and cash is agreeable, than the items have equal value.  If anything, it's the opposite, actually.  Goods (such as collectibles) have at least the potential to increase in value, or at least keep up with inflation.  Cash never increases in value... it can only be worth less over time because inflation is a one-way street.  Money is everywhere.  Trillions and trillions of dollars of it.  There are not trillions of comics.

[MusterMark]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:30 AM, Bookery said:

On 10/21/2022 at 8:06 AM, tth2 said:

It comes with the territory in any business that is fundamentally adverserial, which comic dealing most definitely is. 

Why?  If you go in with an adversarial attitude, then yes, it's probably going to be difficult to make a deal.

I have never thought of dealers, or of getting comics from them, as adversarial in any way, shape or form.

If I were to ever catch myself thinking that way, I would want to correct myself right away.

[davet75]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:13 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

buying the top-five graded copies of a scarce book and cracking out the top four and sending in the labels so they can sell the fifth-highest-graded copy as the highest-graded copy, only to turn around and slab the erstwhile fourth-highest-graded copy in order to sell THAT one as the highest graded copy, etc.

You can "decommission" CGC labels by sending them back in?     This is basically like wiping their record from existence.  That's crazy.  It should have to be accompanied by an insurance loss certificate or something to that effect to be valid for higher value books.  At the very least CGC should keep the original record and put an * denoting a label withdrawal so that it is known that a copy "once" existed at that grade.  Thankfully (/s), I don't have the cash to chase highest graded key books so this is mainly an academic exercise for me. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by davet75

[BitterOldMan]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:06 AM, Robot Man said:

Man, I've known John for like forever. I met him at the LA Shrine shows back in the late 1970’s. Back when you could buy a Bat #1 for $2K! I have always found his prices a bit, how you say "Aggressive"? But there were very few dealers who had his vast amount of stock and such a positive attitude to the hobby. I could rarely afford much from him but that never stopped us talking books like a couple of geeks. 

My favorite purchase from John was this book. He knew how bad I wanted one and kept it aside for me at one of these shows. Was it "reasonable"? Not really but I felt I got a very fair deal on it and was so appreciative that he thought of me and held it for me. It has certainly proved to be a reasonable price over time!

Still miss seeing him...

Thought you might enjoy seeing this little bit of old comic book history. 

Still fondly remember John at NYCC, SDCC, and Wizard Chicago.  My aunt used to live within walking distance of John’s shop on Main Street in Alhambra, CA.  Would park my car near my Aunt’s apartment house and stroll over.  

John will tell these funny and amazing stories of bringing comic books to Jerry Buss, yeah that Jerry Buss, late owner of the Lakers at the Playboy Mansion.

My last purchase from John was Action 252, first Supergirl.  I remember him as a busy super nice guy.

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:24 PM, MusterMark said:

I have never thought of dealers, or of getting comics from them, as adversarial in any way, shape or form.

If I were to ever catch myself thinking that way, I would want to correct myself right away.

Agree 100%.  Saying the relationship is adversarial sounds like projection to me.

[Superman2006]

On 10/21/2022 at 6:45 PM, davet75 said:

On 10/20/2022 at 10:13 PM, LDarkseid1 said:

buying the top-five graded copies of a scarce book and cracking out the top four and sending in the labels so they can sell the fifth-highest-graded copy as the highest-graded copy, only to turn around and slab the erstwhile fourth-highest-graded copy in order to sell THAT one as the highest graded copy, etc.

You can "decommission" CGC labels by sending them back in?     This is basically like wiping their record from existence.  That's crazy.  It should have to be accompanied by an insurance loss certificate or something to that effect to be valid for higher value books.  At the very least CGC should keep the original record and put an * denoting a label withdrawal so that it is known that a copy "once" existed at that grade.  Thankfully (/s), I don't have the cash to chase highest graded key books so this is mainly an academic exercise for me. 

There is a boardie that has a website that you can always go onto to look at CGC grades over history, so in that manner, there is a sort of original record that is maintained, showing all grades that existed at a given point(s) in the past. Someone with a better memory than me can share the pertinent boardie / link.

[Robot Man]

On 10/21/2022 at 3:57 PM, BitterOldMan said:

Still fondly remember John at NYCC, SDCC, and Wizard Chicago.  My aunt used to live within walking distance of John’s shop on Main Street in Alhambra, CA.  Would park my car near my Aunt’s apartment house and stroll over.  

John will tell these funny and amazing stories of bringing comic books to Jerry Buss, yeah that Jerry Buss, late owner of the Lakers at the Playboy Mansion.

My last purchase from John was Action 252, first Supergirl.  I remember him as a busy super nice guy.

I used to frequent his shop in Alhambra all the time. Always loads of new collections to go through. John was a fountain of knowledge and sometimes pulled out incredible books even though he knew I couldn’t buy just to share them with me. 

Like had been said, his prices were often a bit “aggressive”. But I had an angle. There were days and times when John wasn’t there and Nan was running the store. I often made some fair offers and she took them.

I learned long ago in the junk business that often when a husband and wife are involved, the wife has a hard time turning down cash…

[Dr. Love]

I get where Tim the collector is coming from.  If I'm dealing with "it's a VG if I'm buying it, a NM if I'm selling it" approach, then I'm a mark, and it's what I'd call adversarial.  It wasn't enough that those guys made money on the bid/ask spread.  They had to add percentages of return by weaseling in the condition spread.  Just business you say?  Sure, for comics, used cars, and the diamond district in NYC.  And maybe Tim the dealer that was never your approach, and I know it's not how Richard lives his life, but it sure was predominant when I was growing up with comics.  And still would be if the playing field wasn't completely leveled by Ebay in terms of market control and CGC in terms of objective grading.

And that's not even getting into some of the dark shenanigans that some in the know could write a book about.  

[MusterMark]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:49 PM, Superman2006 said:

There is a boardie that has a website that you can always go onto to look at CGC grades over history, so in that manner, there is a sort of original record that is maintained, showing all grades that existed at a given point(s) in the past. Someone with a better memory than me can share the pertinent boardie / link.

Go to:  www.gregholland.com and then click on “CGC Analysis”

OR more directly, go to:  cgcdata.com/cgc/

 

Then:

-          Put in comic title in the first search field

-          Put in the issue number into the third search field

-          Hit enter

-          In the results, click on the comic book (the first time it is mentioned on the page)

-          Then click on “Show the historical CGC Census results”