"Why Collect Foreign Comics?" panel debut from HotKey Comics at MC3 Sunday May 21st 4 4

[rakehell]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:25 PM, HotKey said:

This is just another reason I love the world of foreign comics, you are always finding new things.

Each day brings fresh wonder. 

[rakehell]

On 6/1/2023 at 9:25 PM, themagicrobot said:

It seems that in 1981 from No 16 X-Men and all the other titles (there may have been at least 8 digests per month) such as Chiller, Titans, Conan, Spider-man, FF, Star Heroes and a Romance one, and no doubt also the regular weeklies too, added an Irish price to the covers.

There was a Hulk Pocket Book as well -

In my experience, Young Romance are the hardest to find -

I don't have either of these, btw. Images from GCD.

[southern cross]

Calendar comic published in Australia, newspaper print covers.

Edited June 2, 2023 by southern cross
Added information

[southern cross]

Blackhawk published in Australia 1948

Newspaper print covers.

[Yorick]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, southern cross said:

Calendar comic

I had never heard of the short-edge staple placement as "Calendar Comic".  I love it! 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 5/30/2023 at 1:44 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Hello Hotkey 

Respectfully, I think you're doing a disservice to the hobby by grouping first print price variants in with 'foreign editions' (or 'international editions' as CGC now calls them). I've spent the best part of ten years trying to clarify the very big difference between a non-US priced book that comes from the same print run as its US priced counterpart, and subsequent overseas produced comics which reprint or repackage original US content. Indeed, I appear to have had a hand in getting CGC to finally adopt the 'price variant' label description for the Marvel UK, Canadian and Australian priced copies. It was a great shame, incidentally, to see them wind back on that distinction in their 'Certification of International Comic Books' statement which you will find here:

https://www.cgccomics.com/international-comics/

I feel that you are doing the same thing as CGC in your presentation - muddying the waters by glossing over the key distinction between the two very separate publication groups.

If you haven't already, perhaps you would take the time to read some of the work I have done in the "UK/Canadian/Australian Price Variant" area? Here is a good starting point:

https://boards.cgccomics.com/blogs/entry/5028-john-morlars-journal-summary-page/

In addition, here is an extract below from a post I made elsewhere on the forum which I hope clarifies why I favour the 'Price Variant' terminology.

Good luck with your presentations - we clearly have differing views on naming conventions but I can see that you are genuinely enthusiastic about the comics. If you do read the links, and have any questions, I'll be happy to comment further.

Cheers, Steve

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's OK to hold opinions that differ, as long as they can be backed up with rational thought.

Like you, I favour the term 'UK/Canadian/Australian Price Variant' as it is the best and shortest group of words that I can think of which satisfy the salient factors which, for me, are to recognize their variant status (they are a small subset from the original print state and, therefore, a 'variant' in the correct sense of the word) and secondly to distinguish them from the locally produced publications and reprints of the countries that they were distributed to. There is more to it, more to say, but my arguments were sufficient to compel CGC to move away from "UK Edition" and, whilst they are by no means the be all and end all of comic categorisation, it shows that a professional organisation with growing influence in the industry were prepared to listen to a rational thought process and act on it by changing their systems. If we all get behind those terms, and understand the production status of the books in question, then surely that's a good thing, no?

I accept the term is not perfect in that it encroaches, for want of a better word, on the 'purity' of the US price variant scenario. I understand that logic and thinking and have said so in my threads. When I first joined here my first pence thread was called "Marvel First Printing Pence Priced Distribution Variants". What a mouthful, trying as it was to cover every base. So I distilled it somewhat, to something more manageable. I accept that some dislike it and that it's simply not possible to come up with one short descriptor that will satisfy everyone. So I go with the best I can come up with, and justify it when challenged.

For me, as long as everyone knows what the production status of these books was (i.e. they are not / were not reprints) then I'd prefer if we didn't get too uptight about a descriptor which is pretty much physically accurate in every sense. 

In a nut shell, the UK, Canadian and Australian priced copies were:

• Printed at the same time, in the same place, and by the same people as the US copies
• As a result of plate changes, they have small cover differences including but not limited to a non-US cover price
• This makes them variants - they vary in appearance from their majority US cousins
• The salient difference is the price - this makes them a price variant
• Because price variants exist in other forms, we have to add an additional descriptor to differentiate them
• In the case of the UK copies, UK is that additional obvious descriptor - hence 'UK Price Variant'

So, in respect of the same original print state books, we have the following in existence at different points in history:

• US copies
• US Price Variants (30/35 and the 1999/2000 ones)
• UK Price Variants
• Canadian Price Variants
• Australian Price Variants

Everything else, not being part of the original print state, is by definition a reprint or a locally produced publication.

'Spider-Man Comics Weekly', a UK produced title, may share a cover to an Amazing Spider-Man US original comic, but it is it's own thing - a UK local publication. CGC were calling UK Price Variants of ASM, and UK produced Spider-Man Comics Weeklies, 'UK Editions'. They were calling two different things by one misleading title.  This is why I and others challenged them. This is why they changed their labelling approach.

If we call UK Price Variants "Foreign Editions" then we lose completely the fact that they are part of the original print run. We have to link them to their majority US counterparts. 

I think, Steve, that you could have convinced the doubters earlier by using your research into the 10 cent price fonts variants.

Challenge the naysayers to look at these:

and ask which of the 10 cents versions is the original, and which is the reprint.

And if both of them can be original first printings, why not the pence version?

[themagicrobot]

It's nice to see that the Italians producing this comic were fully conversant with Marvel-lore. Note the signpost.

 

[HotKey]

I just wanted to update everyone that I'll be presenting this panel again at Capital City Comic Con in Lansing, Michigan on Saturday, July 1st at 1pm! They have also asked me if we can do a 2nd panel on foreign comics and of course I was very excited to do so, so on Friday June 30th at 4pm our brand new panel called, "Broadening Our Comic Horizons: The Growth of the Foreign Comic Market" will make its debut! As the title says this panel will focus just on the market around foreign editions the last few years and all the good and bad around it. Feel free to post any examples from the market the last few years that are both good and bad. Big sales that went beyond expectations, seeing ghosts come to market, and even suspected fake sales will all be covered in this to try to educate everyone on what they should expect when entering the foreign comic market and what to be careful of.

Also I will be presenting both views in the main panel around the price variants, that some view them as foreign editions and some don't and the reasons both sides have those opinions, and I'll cover the printing process involved around them as well. That is a direct result of the conversations that happened in this thread, so thank you to everyone who contributed to it. If anyone is going to C4 I hope you stop in and say hi!

[Albert Tatlock]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:37 PM, HotKey said:

Also I will be presenting both views in the main panel around the price variants, that some view them as foreign editions and some don't and the reasons both sides have those opinions

Please bring this, from the indicia of Kid Colt # 110 (UK price variant), to the attention of the foreign editions camp, it includes 'Printed in the U.S.A. by the Easter Color Printing Co'

The 12 cent version of this same book has an identical indicia, except for the last line, which appeared only in that part of the print run earmarked for shipping to the UK.

That answers the question of where printed, so the only issue to be resolved is when printed.

The only likely answer, I believe, is that it was produced on the same day, as part of the same print run, so both are original first printings.

 

[themagicrobot]

To drive home Albert's point here is the inside of a 12 cent Kid Colt Outlaw 110. The only difference between the two comics is that one shows 12 cents as the cover price. The other one shows a 9d price on the cover, the month of publication is omitted from the cover and the indicia adds Thorpe and Porter. Note that the indicia showing Thorpe and Porter was something that only lasted for a year or so in the early 1960s. Later Marvel comics would still be available with both price variants but the interiors were identical.

PS: A nice example of Marvel chipping here. DCs of the same period don't seem to suffer as badly.

PPS: As I don't have my copy of 110 to hand here are the two 111s.

Edited June 10, 2023 by themagicrobot

[themagicrobot]

And to complicate things slightly, the price variants (being identical to the cents comics in shape and colour) are not to be confused with British Editions of many titles produced in the 1950s by Miller and Thorpe and Porter and others in Black and White and various page counts prior to restrictions being lifted in 1959 and original DC/Marvel/Charlton/Dell/ACG etc comics being available in the UK. PS: Strato was one of a number of names Thorpe and Porter used for their publications

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by themagicrobot

[thehumantorch]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:19 AM, HotKey said:

Good morning! I love waking up to some good debate on foreign comics.

If anyone thinks progress isn't being made in this thread, you're wrong. I've also learned how to quote multiple people in one reply. Let the good times roll!

100%. The more I see different foreign editions with variations of the American cover and other original art, the more I love them. Hulk 1 may have the most examples of beautiful variations in foreign editions. I have a German Williams coming with that awesome orange background. Tell me this isn't a thing of beauty.

That Strange Tales you posted Steve is another one I would love to find a copy of someday. There is just some absolutely amazing art out there from artists in other countries and that really does draw a lot of people into foreign comics. Outside of maybe Cortez, Duran and Frisano, foreign artists are very underappreciated still and original art can usually be had for a song in comparison to American OA.

Yeah I was only speaking to people who collected American comics who started collecting foreign editions. There are definitely millions and millions worldwide!

I like the Venn diagram! I just don't like the word "reprint" in the bottom right. In the diagram it would be technically correct, but that word carries such a negative connotation I try to avoid it unless I'm specifically talking about a country reprinting its own first editions.

Well I mean technically they are all comic books magazines... 

I'll be honest, the indica is swaying me pretty good on classifications.

You may perceive 'reprint' as a negative connotation but it's 100% accurate.  Literally a reprint of an earlier published work.

[paqart]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:20 AM, valiantman said:

Gotcha. I think that's a type of "why collect foreign comics" that doesn't appeal to me, which is why I've been confused.

Since books have been collected for hundreds of years, the basis of comic book collecting is found in "first edition" book collecting. The first time Generic-Superhero-Person (from 1930s to present) appears anywhere in a story (not an advertisement) is important because the first time Frankenstein's monster "appears" (is written) anywhere in a story was so important two hundred years ago.

Being "closer to the beginning" is my primary goal as a comic collector (after asking whether I care about the subject at all), and generally "closer to the beginning" is the primary goal of all book collectors. When the book was printed is far more important than where, with the difference between "first" and "second" completely based on the time and not place.

In other words, my questions as a collector are prioritized as:

1) WHO - do I care about the character/subject?

2) WHEN - how close is it to the beginning/origin of the subject?

3) WHAT - is it a thing that I collect (book vs. card vs. toy vs. advertisement)?

I don't ask "WHERE" unless the first 3 priorities are satisfied.

However, when the answers are 1) YES, 2) EARLIEST, and 3) YES, then foreign items can become equal to domestic for this collector, and the top answers to WHY are 1) Because I care, 2) It's the earliest, and 3) I collect them.

I would add "WHERE" for these reasons:
1) Mark Jewelers/Military editions: In addition to meeting the other 3 criteria, I like the idea of getting something that has gone to a military PX and come back intact, usually from overseas, and in conditions that frequently destroy things much less fragile than comic books
2) Newsstands: This is how I originally bought comics as a kid and I like the idea of having something that was once on a spinner rack or a newsstand kiosk shelf on a snowy day in New York, complete with rubber stamped date on the cover
3) British: Identical in every other way but less common than US editions, particularly in good condition
4) Canadian: Same as British

I have preferences, depending on the age of the comic:
1999-2017: Newsstand
1980-1990: Canadian 
1970-1979: MJ insert/British
1960-1969: British
Pre-1960: British or Canadian, when distinguishable

I don't like the US edition + UK price stamp because those can be added after the fact by anyone. At the moment, there is no added value but if that other changes, these would be easy to fake.

[paqart]

I have been buying Marvel UK editions for a few months now. One, seen in the photo attached, seems to have had a price label at one time. If so, I wonder why, because the UK price is printed on the cover. Does anyone know if there was a price change in the UK around the time this was printed to explain the price tag? Or is it more likely stuck on much later for an unrelated reason?

A second question: I haven't seen any DC comics with a UK price printed on the cover. Do they exist? Or are they all price stamps only?

Edited June 11, 2023 by paqart

[valiantman]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:45 PM, paqart said:

I have been buying Marvel UK editions for a few months now. One, seen in the photo attached, seems to have had a price label at one time. If so, I wonder why, because the UK price is printed on the cover. Does anyone know if there was a price change in the UK around the time this was printed to explain the price tag? Or is it more likely stuck on much later for an unrelated reason?

A second question: I haven't seen any DC comics with a UK price printed on the cover. Do they exist? Or are they all price stamps only?

I would suspect it was a sticker of a higher price so that the "used book shoppe" would not accidentally sell the book for 10d.

[paqart]

On 6/10/2023 at 10:29 PM, valiantman said:

I would suspect it was a sticker of a higher price so that the "used book shoppe" would not accidentally sell the book for 10d.

You're probably right. I forgot how common those were back then.

[themagicrobot]

@paqart said

 

Quote

A second question: I haven't seen any DC comics with a UK price printed on the cover. Do they exist?

They did for a handful of issues in July 1971 but you'd need to read 

 for all the details.

 

Quote

 

I have been buying Marvel UK editions for a few months now.

 

 

 

The image of the Thor 138 you posted is a price variant. Marvel UK editions are something completely different.

Edited June 11, 2023 by themagicrobot

[rakehell]

On 6/11/2023 at 2:45 AM, paqart said:

I haven't seen any DC comics with a UK price printed on the cover. Do they exist?

They do indeed. 

On 6/11/2023 at 9:13 AM, themagicrobot said:

They did for a handful of issues in July 1971

And a bunch more between 1978 & 1981.

See here for the whole enchilada -

Another fun-filled Marwood production. 

[mstrange]

No love for this Brazilian PCH classic with cover art by Jayme Cortez 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/horror/almanaque-de-o-terror-negro-nn-1953-editora-la-selva-1953-cgc-vg-45-white-pages/a/40227-81014.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited July 10, 2023 by mstrange

[southern cross]