What did I just buy TMNT #1?? 11 11

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:28 PM, KCOComics said:

@rich_TMNT

Do counterfeits actually go for $6k?

The comicconnect auction pretty clearly identifies this as a counterfeit.  Is there a nuance to this particular counterfeit? 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/901762

 

What a waste of money, I wouldn’t spend $50 on that.

[southern cross]

Any you old timers like myself remember the counterfeit copy used to be listed at $50 in Overstreet.

Then the Overstreet started listing it as 'No value' because it doesn't have a value.

If anyone wants to throw good money for fakes, to each their own.

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:28 PM, KCOComics said:

@rich_TMNT

Do counterfeits actually go for $6k?

The comicconnect auction pretty clearly identifies this as a counterfeit.  Is there a nuance to this particular counterfeit? 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/901762

 

@KCOComics The original full counterfeits (like the one you linked to) are pretty valuable since they are part of Turtles comics lore - Overstreet warned of counterfeits in their pricing guide and their description of them matches these.  I sure would like to figure out where these counterfeits came from because they are VERY well-made. The cover of these counterfeits is really the piece that makes them fairly easy to identify - but the internal pages are actually really good.  I have quite a bit of info. about these counterfeits on my site.

The "counterfeits" that are just 2nd or 3rd printing copies with the printing designation erased or bleached out wouldn't be as valuable - since they are just damaged 2nd & 3rd printing copies.

The counterfeit this guy has been trying to pass off lately is a much newer counterfeit - one I haven't seen before. And it isn't nearly as well-made as the other and the internal page images are much too small for the pages.  And, of course, the price is missing from the back cover. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by rich_TMNT

[techtre2003]

On 10/19/2023 at 11:42 AM, shadroch said:

If someone wants to buy a counterfeit book advertised as such, who are we to say no? 

I agree but it is against ebay rules to sell counterfeit items even when labeled as such so probably not the best venue to try to move this book. 

[shadroch]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:09 AM, techtre2003 said:

I agree but it is against ebay rules to sell counterfeit items even when labeled as such so probably not the best venue to try to move this book. 

I was told that in the early days of grading cards and coins, companies would not only not grade counterfeits but wouldn't return them. That's a very slippery slope.

[grendel013]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:06 PM, shadroch said:

I was told that in the early days of grading cards and coins, companies would not only not grade counterfeits but wouldn't return them. That's a very slippery slope.

Kinda like when the ATM eats your debit card. 

[rich_TMNT]

Like the proverbial bad penny...it's back. He's persistent, I'll give him that.

 

[thehumantorch]

On 10/21/2023 at 7:06 AM, rich_TMNT said:

Like the proverbial bad penny...it's back. He's persistent, I'll give him that.

 

Greed, pure and simple

[Senormac]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:13 AM, thehumantorch said:

Greed, pure and simple

Yes, and if he knows it's not an original, then he is dishonest too

[grendel013]

@Mike Oliver How much did Magnolia House sell this to you for? Did you ever ask how they obtained?

[Semicentennial]

On 10/19/2023 at 5:35 PM, Grendel72 said:

Why would CGC grade such books when it's highly probable that they maybe cracked and sold as being authentic ? Tad bit irresponsible. 

Does it matter whether or not CGC graded the book?  What's to stop someone from claiming it authentic if it got rejected by CGC?

[Grendel72]

On 10/22/2023 at 3:00 AM, Semicentennial said:

Does it matter whether or not CGC graded the book?  What's to stop someone from claiming it authentic if it got rejected by CGC?

Agree. Think the larger point I wanted to make was the very existence CGC exists is to mitigate the inherent risks posed in collecting comic books. One being inflating the condition of a book through sheer ignorant or being disingenuous and/or  making undisclosed restorations. This is a whole other level. It's not restoration, its a blatant forgery. Instead of rejecting such books or being given a 'NG', CGC is certifying them with grades. Just find that a bit odd. Though I can also see the argument that CGC is an impartial 3rd party grader and grades whatever is presented. And yet they don't grade certain covers which they deem as too risqué. Views ?

[grendel013]

Identified counterfeits need a scarlet letter of some sort. Stamp on the cover? Every page? Hole punch? Sticker? I'm okay with encapsulating but yeah they crack it open and the fun starts all over again. Maybe CGC does stamp the inside. Or maybe not. 

[Semicentennial]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:23 PM, Grendel72 said:

Agree. Think the larger point I wanted to make was the very existence CGC exists is to mitigate the inherent risks posed in collecting comic books. One being inflating the condition of a book through sheer ignorant or being disingenuous and/or  making undisclosed restorations. This is a whole other level. It's not restoration, its a blatant forgery. Instead of rejecting such books or being given a 'NG', CGC is certifying them with grades. Just find that a bit odd. Though I can also see the argument that CGC is an impartial 3rd party grader and grades whatever is presented. And yet they don't grade certain covers which they deem as too risqué. Views ?

This, I don't get.  They'll grade your counterfeit/remanufactured books without a problem, but explicit books may or may not get graded.  Books like Cherry Poptart and Faust gets a pass, but other books that aren't as explicit are a straight no.  There is no standard.  

[Calidream'n]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:06 AM, rich_TMNT said:

Like the proverbial bad penny...it's back. He's persistent, I'll give him that.

 

And it’s gone again. Wonder if it’s getting flagged or if he’s just fishing for private offers…

[MAR1979]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:06 AM, rich_TMNT said:

Like the proverbial bad penny...it's back. He's persistent, I'll give him that.

 

Scammer is as scammer does

[Semicentennial]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:50 PM, Calidream'n said:

And it’s gone again. Wonder if it’s getting flagged or if he’s just fishing for private offers…

I sent him an offer, but he turned it down.  If you plan on sending him an offer, I suggest offering at least $40 since he turned down my $30 offer.

[Gonzimodo]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:23 PM, Grendel72 said:

Agree. Think the larger point I wanted to make was the very existence CGC exists is to mitigate the inherent risks posed in collecting comic books. One being inflating the condition of a book through sheer ignorant or being disingenuous and/or  making undisclosed restorations. This is a whole other level. It's not restoration, its a blatant forgery. Instead of rejecting such books or being given a 'NG', CGC is certifying them with grades. Just find that a bit odd. Though I can also see the argument that CGC is an impartial 3rd party grader and grades whatever is presented. And yet they don't grade certain covers which they deem as too risqué. Views ?

CGC's job (in theory) is to verify what a collectible is, verify its completeness, identify any restoration or other issues, and grade it accordingly.  If the process stops in its tracks because something fails the first step (verification) for whatever reason, whether because it's a fake or just something that offends their delicate sensibilities, I'm fine with that, as long as they're consistent.  Their company, their rules.  

(I lean toward them simply refusing to grade bootlegs or unauthorized editions, though, regardless of how much acetate you slap on the cover.)

[zach1900]

On 8/8/2023 at 7:19 PM, wiparker824 said:

This book has a long history of counterfeits being common as others have said. Normally the ones I’ve seen were more lazy, they just white out the 2nd print text on the inner cover but the ad page at the end would be different. This doesn’t look like that but counterfeit seems likely with the missing price.

There's like a dozen proven ones out there I would hardly say a long history

[wardevil0]

On 5/2/2024 at 6:38 PM, zach1900 said:

There's like a dozen proven ones out there I would hardly say a long history

Cerebus 1 and TMNT 1 are among the few comics to have a notable population of counterfeit copies, dating back decades likely due to the scarcity of authentic copies and authoritative information in the pre-internet era.  Without internet access in your pocket, it was relatively easy to pass off fake small-press comics.  They were odd sized, black and white, and too tempting to pass up if one appeared at a local hotel ballroom convention, flea market, or even LCS (since they didn't always have any better identifying information than the rest of us).  I'm not sure when TMNT 1 counterfeits first appeared, but I'm sure someone could check Copper Age back issues for ads from American Comics, New England Comics, and Mile High to find the listings.