What did I just buy TMNT #1?? 11 11

[stock_rotation]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:37 AM, rich_TMNT said:

The cover (with exception of the missing price) actually looks pretty good for a non-authentic copy - colors are decent, cross-hatching seems there, and the blood on the sword seems accurate.  But the interior page art scaling doesn't at all match with a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd printing so the interiors are completely something else.

This particular copy is likely a scan of the 2009 FCBD release. That book would get you the cover (mostly), the inside front cover (mostly), and the entire insides. You could even get the critical inside back cover image from the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Ultimate Collection" Vol. 5 book. A little bit of basic photoshop work would get you over the finish line.

Edited August 11, 2023 by stock_rotation

[rich_TMNT]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:04 PM, stock_rotation said:

Copy machines don't use ink. They disperse colored powder (toner) on the surface which is then heated quickly and fuses the toner to the paper. There is no absorption. I suspect the caveat about not being suitable for printing is for consumer-level inkjet printers, where that would actually be a problem. That size of cut-sheet newsprint is meant for consumers; offset printers would either use roll newsprint, or if they were configured for sheetfed, it would be a larger page size like 28" x 40". If you walked into your local printshop with a ream of that paper they'd pass on the job because setting up a press to properly run that paper would likely use up half the ream.

Digital copiers are how current counterfeits (or replicas, as the kids are calling them now) are being produced. Nobody's inking up a press to run 1 or 5 or 10 copies of a comic. The cost would be astronomical. But you can get a single copy of a 36-page color comic printed, stapled and cut to size at your local copy shop for under $20. Cheaper if you get more than one copy.

I can provide you with a technical explanation as to what likely happened. I won't bore everyone else with the details; I'll send you a PM.

Great info. You clearly know your printing biz stuff - hit me up. Would be great to talk shop with you.

On 8/10/2023 at 8:56 PM, stock_rotation said:

This particular copy is likely a scan of the 2009 FCBD release. That book would get you the cover (mostly), the inside front cover (mostly), and the entire insides. You could even get the critical inside back cover image from the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Ultimate Collection" Vol. 5 book. A little bit of basic photoshop work would get you over the finish line.

I was going through all the TMNT #1 reprints and I originally was leaning toward this issue being sourced from the 35th Anniversary reprint (Box Set of #1-4 + Raphael). That cover was the most like the original and was even oversized - showing the full wraparound front & back cover but I checked and there aren't any of the interior cover images plus Page 33 has Shredder's fist cut off so it couldn't have been that book. I think you may be right though that the FCBD issue from 2009 could be the source - especially since the page artwork on this is smaller in scale so it likely came from a smaller book.

What I just can't figure out is the missing price on the back cover. I haven't yet found any images of that back cover that are missing that price but I think if that is found on any of the TMNT #1 reprints, that's undoubtedly the source for this.  I can't imagine someone removing the price on the back after scanning it from one of the books that shows it. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:36 PM, stock_rotation said:

This is not true. You can buy 11x17 newsprint that will run in any modern digital copier.

https://paperworks.com/store/products/newsprint-white-11x17-30lb-5lbbox

Ebay is full of repro SA comics that use this paper.

This is also not true. I personally scanned my TMNT 2nd print which I bought when it was released. I recently sold this book on eBay, so I'm no longer in possession of it, but I have full 600DPI scans of every page. This is a crop of the bottom of the page in question.

And since you'll probably ask, yes, it has the mark at the top of the left hand side of the page.

Thanks for the link, I want to check out that paper.

For many years, you'd have to emulate it digitally with weathering and color on regular bond paper - but you still didn't have the feel of newsprint. I tried to run newsprint (like from cheap sketchpads) through both laser and inkjet printers before, and the results were pretty poor. The feed rollers pinched and wrinkled the paper, resulting in a very unevenly printed page. I had frequent projects I had to create to give it a vintage look (like an old newspaper, etc) and I just never got the right feel - but it did look authentic.

As for the repro books from Ebay, I have a bunch that serve as stunt doubles for my more valuable books - I'll have to take a closer look at them. When I got them, the only thing I really noticed was they were incredibly poor reproductions in terms of resolution and quality. I'll have to check out the paper type.

[Mike Oliver]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:01 AM, Mutant Manatee said:

 

I can actually see how that could happen accidentally.  Perhaps he had been researching the internet to verify what he had and saved that image to his phone for comparison, then when he listed the comic on eBay he accidentally included that photo.  This scenario is more likely if he created the listing while driving.  I'm not sure if he actually did that, but he definitely took some of the photos while driving.  (Illegal in many states but I'm not sure about Louisiana or Mississippi.)  Perhaps in his excitement over what he thought he (possibly) had, he created the listing in haste.

That is exactly what happened. I had no idea what it was and I posted it in excitement, I had tried to research and found photos and saved them for comparison didn’t realize that I put them on the eBay listing till just now regardless, the sale was canceled after I was told it was a fake , and I am sending the book out in Cgc to figure out what the hell it is and see what they labeled as when I get it back, I will post pictures. I’ve never he’ll want any TMNT Prints , so I had no idea.what I had which is why reached out to multiple places. 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:32 AM, Mike Oliver said:

That is exactly what happened. I had no idea what it was and I posted it in excitement, I had tried to research and found photos and saved them for comparison didn’t realize that I put them on the eBay listing till just now regardless, the sale was canceled after I was told it was a fake , and I am sending the book out in Cgc to figure out what the hell it is and see what they labeled as when I get it back, I will post pictures. I’ve never he’ll want any TMNT Prints , so I had no idea.what I had which is why reached out to multiple places. 

This was concerning to me, please handle your books with care (in a polite way  ). If it was a first, second, third print  

[ExNihilo]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:32 AM, Mike Oliver said:

and I am sending the book out in Cgc to figure out what the hell it is and see what they labeled as when I get it back

1) why would you blindly send a book to CGC without knowing exactly what it is?  It could be something completely worthless and the time/money spent would be a waste.

that all being said...

2) I can't wait to see what it comes back as because with the absence of CGC's QC, it wouldn't surprise me if it erroneously came back as something it isn't.  

[cbalroman]

On 8/14/2023 at 2:06 PM, ExNihilo said:

1) why would you blindly send a book to CGC without knowing exactly what it is?  It could be something completely worthless and the time/money spent would be a waste.

 

Don't you have to list the item you are sending to CGC in their drop down menu?  I'm curious on what the OP picked when he filled out the online form.  

[ExNihilo]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:45 PM, cbalroman said:

I'm curious on what the OP picked when he filled out the online form.

The submission is gonna be one book, three lines on the form:

1) TMNT #1 (1st print) ?

2) TMNT #1 (2nd print) ?

3) TMNT #1 (3rd print) ?

[rich_TMNT]

Hi everyone, I wanted to provide an update on this book so word gets out - this copy of TMNT #1 that was "found" without pricing on the back cover is now a confirmed COUNTERFEIT !!!  

The Twitter (X) message used by the OP @Mike Oliver on his eBay listing which supposedly shows a response from Kevin Eastman about how some copies of TMNT #1 had no price on the back cover is also FAKE / SPOOFED.  Kevin has confirmed that this conversation NEVER occurred and there were no copies ever made without pricing on the back cover - it's a fabricated story made into a Photoshopped Twitter message in an attempt to legitimize this counterfeit copy.

In addition to the missing price on the back cover, I also identified a discrepancy with the copyright year in the Gobbledygook ad on the inside back cover - it's supposed to be "1983" but this counterfeit copy shows a date of "1984" on that ad (and the lettering isn't the same).

Keep watch as I'm sure this copy will continue surfacing (and it's quite possible there were additional copies made). It seems to be a recently counterfeited version - I've not seen one like it previously.

[JollyComics]

I am VERY VERY VERY late to come here.

I felt terrible for the buyer who bought it for $8000 via eBay.  I am shocked to see the OP driving and showing off the book and taking pictures - a big time distracted driver.  I have absolutely no idea if the buyer returned this book.  It's definitely NOT my problem.

It's kind of late to provide this video unless it's useful.

 

[Poekaymon]

I missed this in August, but this is thread of the year.

[ExNihilo]

So now that this is confirmed, how do we go about banning OP?

This seems clear cut.  Does @CGC Mike just ban the account or would we still have to go through the probation stuff?

Edited October 1, 2023 by ExNihilo

[Cat]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:14 AM, rich_TMNT said:

Hi everyone, I wanted to provide an update on this book so word gets out - this copy of TMNT #1 that was "found" without pricing on the back cover is now a confirmed COUNTERFEIT !!!  

The Twitter (X) message used by the OP @Mike Oliver on his eBay listing which supposedly shows a response from Kevin Eastman about how some copies of TMNT #1 had no price on the back cover is also FAKE / SPOOFED.  Kevin has confirmed that this conversation NEVER occurred and there were no copies ever made without pricing on the back cover - it's a fabricated story made into a Photoshopped Twitter message in an attempt to legitimize this counterfeit copy.

In addition to the missing price on the back cover, I also identified a discrepancy with the copyright year in the Gobbledygook ad on the inside back cover - it's supposed to be "1983" but this counterfeit copy shows a date of "1984" on that ad (and the lettering isn't the same).

Keep watch as I'm sure this copy will continue surfacing (and it's quite possible there were additional copies made). It seems to be a recently counterfeited version - I've not seen one like it previously.

Can we please see where Kevin denies the convo? Just for completeness sake? 

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/1/2023 at 1:10 PM, Cat said:

Can we please see where Kevin denies the convo? Just for completeness sake? 

It wasn't public - I confirmed this via emails with Kevin's team. Let me see if I can get them to post something in this thread to eliminate any doubts anyone might have. 

[Turtle]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:14 AM, rich_TMNT said:

Hi everyone, I wanted to provide an update on this book so word gets out - this copy of TMNT #1 that was "found" without pricing on the back cover is now a confirmed COUNTERFEIT !!!  

The Twitter (X) message used by the OP @Mike Oliver on his eBay listing which supposedly shows a response from Kevin Eastman about how some copies of TMNT #1 had no price on the back cover is also FAKE / SPOOFED.  Kevin has confirmed that this conversation NEVER occurred and there were no copies ever made without pricing on the back cover - it's a fabricated story made into a Photoshopped Twitter message in an attempt to legitimize this counterfeit copy.

In addition to the missing price on the back cover, I also identified a discrepancy with the copyright year in the Gobbledygook ad on the inside back cover - it's supposed to be "1983" but this counterfeit copy shows a date of "1984" on that ad (and the lettering isn't the same).

Keep watch as I'm sure this copy will continue surfacing (and it's quite possible there were additional copies made). It seems to be a recently counterfeited version - I've not seen one like it previously.

You're a freakin' treasure. 

[stock_rotation]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:14 AM, rich_TMNT said:

The Twitter (X) message used by the OP @Mike Oliver on his eBay listing which supposedly shows a response from Kevin Eastman about how some copies of TMNT #1 had no price on the back cover is also FAKE / SPOOFED.  Kevin has confirmed that this conversation NEVER occurred and there were no copies ever made without pricing on the back cover - it's a fabricated story made into a Photoshopped Twitter message in an attempt to legitimize this counterfeit copy.

Where/when did this image get posted? It wasn't part of the first auction he listed (https://www.ebay.com/itm/305064431861). Did he relist and the 2nd auction got cancelled? I don't see it in his history.

Edited October 2, 2023 by stock_rotation

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:03 PM, stock_rotation said:

Where/when did this image get posted? It wasn't part of the first auction he listed (https://www.ebay.com/itm/305064431861). Did he relist and the 2nd auction got cancelled? I don't see it in his history.

The fake Twitter message was posted as part of the 2nd auction for this book - https://www.ebay.com/itm/305115910894

The auction description clearly references it, implying that this is somehow a unique printing unto itself, just now found 40 years later in a "flee market" but never previously documented or discovered by anyone. LOL

[Sigur Ros]

Lol...

So after all this, and confirming it was counterfeit, he listed it again claiming he doesn't know what printing it is. 

ffs...

Talk about scamming people.

 

[Ryan.]

Interesting. 

[F For Fake]

Ugh, the amount of time that some people put into scams is just mind-boggling. Is the money really worth the number of plates you have to keep spinning? Honesty is so much easier.