To Pedigree or not to Pedigree, That is the question? 0

[action1kid]

How important is the Pedigree designation to you? Would you take it over a non Pedigree that is a tick higher?

[RareHighGrade]

If the pedigree in question were Church, Larson, San Francisco or Allentown, most likely yes.

[lou_fine]

And if the pedigree in question were some of ther later ones like Cookville, Eldon, or Harold Curtis seemingly done only to promote their new pedigree label being introduced at the same time, definitely a big NO.  

[ender]

I would take a camp era Okajima pedigree book over a higher grade non pedigree book and run out the door like a madman before the seller changed their mind!  I would also be excited for a Mile High, Larson, and a few others of that vintage.

[IngelsFan]

As I am currently trying to put together a pedigree run, I would say pedigree is the priority for me. I passed up one issue because it was a pedigree but lower graded than my highest graded copy (9.0 ped vs 9.4 for the non-ped). That isn’t a mistake I plan on repeating.

[tth2]

Depends on the individual book.  

I remember some mail order dealers used to advertise a book as just "Mile High", with no grade, as if "Mile High" was all you needed to know.  But there are Mile Highs that aren't high grade and might not be the best copy.  

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:21 PM, action1kid said:

How important is the Pedigree designation to you? Would you take it over a non Pedigree that is a tick higher?

It depends on the pedigree.  In respect to the second question...

A definite maybe, but it depends on the tick, eye appeal and pricing.

On 8/12/2023 at 1:43 PM, RareHighGrade said:

If the pedigree in question were Church, Larson, San Francisco or Allentown, most likely yes.

Good call, those are the most desired super-peds!  There are several sidekick pedigrees almost as popular though.

Gaines File Copies are highly valued over non-pedigree ECs of equivalent grade, with a triple or quadruple grade to price ratio, perhaps because of their vaulted status (pun intended).

There are a several other pedigrees that receive almost as much interest as the four you mentioned (Denver & Vancouver come to mind, perhaps one or two more). All pedigrees are deserving of some incremental value enhancement over non-per copies, although some pedigrees haven't sustained their high promise investment wise.

...But that's a well beat horse of a different color. 

[tth2]

In the case of ECs, though, it's hard to imagine that you'd be able to find a non-pedigree book that's better than every Gaines copy of that same book. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by tth2
Replaced "any" with "every"

[tth2]

Even the Dentist has been known to kick out the Church copy for a non-pedigree copy.

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:05 PM, tth2 said:

In the case of ECs, though, it's hard to imagine that you'd be able to find a non-pedigree book that's better than any Gaines copy of that same book. 

Point taken. There may be a few non-Gaines, non-pedigree exceptions, but very few.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:21 AM, action1kid said:

How important is the Pedigree designation to you? Would you take it over a non Pedigree that is a tick higher?

No. Except for certain Okajima books.  The fact that DA opted for non-mile High books over certain of his Mile High books sort of says it all. The story of a pedigree has to be really compelling to cause me to pay a bonus in a cgc world,  

[jimbo_7071]

I put page quality, freshness, and eye appeal above grade regardless of whether a book is a pedigree. Many pedigree copies have all of those things going for them and would win out for that reason, not just because of a pedigree designation.

For any given book, all existing copies were all produced around the same time in the same bindery. Who cares whose basement a particular copy sat in?

On 8/12/2023 at 2:43 PM, RareHighGrade said:

If the pedigree in question were Church, Larson, San Francisco or Allentown, most likely yes.

 

On 8/12/2023 at 11:04 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

Good call, those are the most desired super-peds!  

The Church and San Francisco books are often among the nicest, freshest copies, but I'm not sure I understand the appeal of the Larson books. Even if you can overlook the writing on the cover as a "pedigree marking," most of the ones that I've seen appear to have foxing or rust on the staples or both.

Edited August 13, 2023 by jimbo_7071

[Cat-Man_America]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:19 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I put page quality, freshness, and eye appeal above grade regardless of whether a book is a pedigree. Many pedigree copies have all of those things going for them and would win out for that reason, not just because of a pedigree designation.

For any given book, all existing copies were all produced around the same time in the same bindery. Who cares whose basement a particular copy sat in?

 

The Church and San Francisco books are often among the nicest, freshest copies, but I'm not sure I understand the appeal of the Larson books. Even if you can overlook the writing on the cover as a "pedigree marking," most of the ones that I've seen appear to have foxing or rust on the staples or both.

The Larson books are loved because of the owner and his story. He was actually located late in life and was approachable by fans, enjoyed and appreciated the attention.  He just passed away last year during the pandemic. Many, if not most pedigree collections have sketchier stories ...lots of blanks to fill in... or their original owner/heirs prefer anonymity. Lamont Larson celebrated fandom and that love has been returned by fans loving his collection.

[RareHighGrade]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:19 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I'm not sure I understand the appeal of the Larson books. Even if you can overlook the writing on the cover as a "pedigree marking," most of the ones that I've seen appear to have foxing or rust on the staples or both.

Many Larsons have some foxing and some have slight rust on the staples, but most books in the collection have white (or at least ow/w) pages and a freshness similar to Church books.  That freshness is what appeals to me.  I also prefer Larsons with the name written on the cover over those without, just as I prefer Church books with the distributer codes.

[adamstrange]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:53 PM, RareHighGrade said:

just as I prefer Church books with the distributer codes.

Or with his name on the cover?

[RareHighGrade]

On 8/13/2023 at 1:10 PM, adamstrange said:

Or with his name on the cover?

Yes, those are the best of all.

[Sqeggs]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:43 PM, RareHighGrade said:

If the pedigree in question were Church, Larson, San Francisco or Allentown, most likely yes.

I'd agree if the book were "a tick lower." Probably not if the ped copy is two ticks plus a smidgen lower. 

I do like peds, even if they're Crowleys or foxy Crippens. It adds to my enjoyment of the hobby to some idea of the history of the books I'm collecting.

[Sqeggs]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:57 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

The Larson books are loved because of the owner and his story. He was actually located late in life and was approachable by fans, enjoyed and appreciated the attention.  He just passed away last year during the pandemic. Many, if not most pedigree collections have sketchier stories ...lots of blanks to fill in... or their original owner/heirs prefer anonymity. Lamont Larson celebrated fandom and that love has been returned by fans loving his collection.

As I mentioned in the thread on Jon Berk's passing, his two (I think or maybe it was three) articles on tracking down Lamont Larson are well worth reading. 

[Sqeggs]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:53 PM, RareHighGrade said:

Many Larsons have some foxing and some have slight rust on the staples, but most books in the collection have white (or at least ow/w) pages and a freshness similar to Church books.  That freshness is what appeals to me.  I also prefer Larsons with the name written on the cover over those without, just as I prefer Church books with the distributer codes.

It's too bad that before the story was known and the ped recognized some dealers erased the name. I've mostly avoided those. I think some of the earliest books in the collection never had his name written on them. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:51 PM, Sqeggs said:

It's too bad that before the story was known and the ped recognized some dealers erased the name. I've mostly avoided those. I think some of the earliest books in the collection never had his name written on them. 

Regardless of the ped status of a book, a glaring erasure on a book looks worse than the writing that was erased.

On 8/13/2023 at 2:57 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

The Larson books are loved because of the owner and his story. He was actually located late in life and was approachable by fans, enjoyed and appreciated the attention.  He just passed away last year during the pandemic. Many, if not most pedigree collections have sketchier stories ...lots of blanks to fill in... or their original owner/heirs prefer anonymity. Lamont Larson celebrated fandom and that love has been returned by fans loving his collection.

It sounds like a good story; I'll have read more about it. I can understand the appeal to collectors who might have met Lamont or who were actively collecting when Lamont was located. I was probably on a long break from the hobby at that time.