Clink auction shill bidding? 4 4

[justafan]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:39 AM, Jaylam said:

I have listed on CLink myself and they provide more than one image allowed per listing. Why they don't put an image of the back cover on their auction listings just makes no sense and as many have pointed out in this thread, may be hurting their and their consignor's bottom line. I thought maybe with Steve Borock (he is with CLink now right?) coming on board with them some of these obvious sources of contention with their business model might be brought more up to speed with what is a no brainer with everyone else, but alas, nothing has changed so far.

I've observed they only do it for the bigger books. High grade GA and SA and some mega modern keys where they feel it's worth their time because they will get so many requests from bidders for back cover scans.  I personally believe they don't provide back cover scans for all books is for 2 key reasons:

1. mainly it takes double the amount of time for them to setup the listing and
2. they may feel providing less information is better for bidding on more common or cheaper books when the book's hammer price might suffer due to exposing a bad wrap, misaligned staples, tanning, dust shadow, or off-white back cover, or production defects allowed in the grade.  In that way it ensures that multiple copies of the same book going up for sale can only be judged based on their front cover and net the maximum bid interest.

I always request back cover scans of any book up for auction on comiclink. I've been burned many times with a 9.8 book that looked perfect on the front but had some allowed defect like 1/4" misaligned staple, CGC case scratch/crack, miswrap/miscut/misaligned back cover, or yellowing of the back cover.  I try to buy based on the view of the book rather than the label as much as I can.

[Gaard]

Isn't there a rep from CL on these boards?  Can he just simply comment on the shill bidding and sticker issues?

[namisgr]

Consigners are blocked from bidding on the comics they consigned.  As for the stickers, nobody but Comiclink likes them but I imagine they'll continue to use them for advertising their business.

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/29/2023 at 2:49 PM, Professor K said:

Hi jeffery. I tried it once and it left a rainbow like stain on the slab. I once bought a cbcs slab that looked melted in the spot where the sticker was. A guy on the board told me it was his and he did it using goo gone. It's strong suff but if you've had no problems with it no reason to stop using it I guess. 

 

I've always used rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't leave residue and evaporates faster than goo gone or similar chemical. And it is non-corrosive to plastic.

[Professor K]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:51 AM, namisgr said:

Consigners are blocked from bidding on the comics they consigned.  As for the stickers, nobody but Comiclink likes them but I imagine they'll continue to use them for advertising their business.

I wish they would make them so they come off easier, like just peel off in one shot. I think they are now easier to remove than they used to be. 

On 8/31/2023 at 11:43 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I've always used rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't leave residue and evaporates faster than goo gone or similar chemical. And it is non-corrosive to plastic.

If it works than that sounds good. I think I've tried it at least once. But I'm serious about the magic of olive oil. I get most of the paper off and the olive oil takes the glue residue right off. 

In Rome they used rub it all over their bodies than scrape it off with a special tool. Clean as a whistle those Romans.

[Motor City Rob]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:34 AM, ThothAmon said:

 

On 8/26/2023 at 7:34 AM, ThothAmon said:

This. While not a defect the 6.5 wrap with the interior pages protruding past from cover is not everyone’s cup of tea. The grade difference is nominal and with a slight bump for white pages the final hammer should be close. 

The page quality doesn't make a huge difference unless you get into the higher grades. I also don't think the defects are that significantly different that would cause the 5.5 to sell anywhere close to the 6.5. At the end of the day, it's a 5.5 for a reason and that 6.5 is going to sell for more.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Motor City Rob
Accidentally quoted twice

[alexgross.com]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:51 AM, namisgr said:

Consigners are blocked from bidding on the comics they consigned.  As for the stickers, nobody but Comiclink likes them but I imagine they'll continue to use them for advertising their business.

this may be true on CL but i am told on excellent authority that another major auction site allows at least some big sellers to bid on their own books. 

i have no evidence but a strong suspicion that all 3 major auction sites participate in some kind of shill bidding on the bigger auction books. allegations to that effect have been around for a long time by some people who apparently worked at some of these places. and all three sites appear to be owned by people/businesses with major collections of their own. therefore the auction house winning a book because they shilled it too high simply can mean it goes into the vault for awhile.

ultimately no one should be shocked by weirdly strong auction results at any auction site. 

[Motor City Rob]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:11 PM, alexgross.com said:

this may be true on CL but i am told on excellent authority that another major auction site allows at least some big sellers to bid on their own books. 

i have no evidence but a strong suspicion that all 3 major auction sites participate in some kind of shill bidding on the bigger auction books. allegations to that effect have been around for a long time by some people who apparently worked at some of these places. and all three sites appear to be owned by people/businesses with major collections of their own. therefore the auction house winning a book because they shilled it too high simply can mean it goes into the vault for awhile.

ultimately no one should be shocked by weirdly strong auction results at any auction site. 

I think you're correct. Also, I don't think it's a secret. At the last Comic Connect auction, the sellers of the Bobby Blue Collection openly stated that they won at least one of the books from their own auction. Many of those books sold for ridiculous prices as well. Seems like a strange policy to allow sellers to bid. Not sure of the policies at the other houses. 

[justafan]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:19 PM, Motor City Rob said:

I think you're correct. Also, I don't think it's a secret. At the last Comic Connect auction, the sellers of the Bobby Blue Collection openly stated that they won at least one of the books from their own auction. Many of those books sold for ridiculous prices as well. Seems like a strange policy to allow sellers to bid. Not sure of the policies at the other houses. 

I guess for some of those situations it's like paying a 10% or 19.5% fee for the chance to have your book sold at auction for a price your comfortable with.  Why not just pay for a reserve price fee at that point.  So I wonder how it worked out for the Bobby Blue sellers.  Did they pay the auction house and then the auction house paid them back minus the commission?

[buttock]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:19 PM, Motor City Rob said:

I think you're correct. Also, I don't think it's a secret. At the last Comic Connect auction, the sellers of the Bobby Blue Collection openly stated that they won at least one of the books from their own auction. 

Where did you see this? 

[Telegan]

Maybe I'm not looking at the back close enough, but I don't recall a sticker on most of my CL slabs, and I've bought quite a few.  Maybe I'm not paying attention to the back enough or don't really care.  I mean, I think I may have gotten a few (not sure), but in my last purchase, there were about 7 or 8 slabs, and none of them had it.

I would be scared to use goo gone on plastics - they don't even recommend it, but rather state to test it in an inconspicuous area first.  Another solution others have mentioned included olive oil.  It would possibly take a bit more elbow grease, but here's ETA Nick (miss that dude and his videos) showing how it's done :

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Telegan

[Telegan]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:26 PM, buttock said:

Where did you see this? 

They were bidding on a few of their own comics, which kind of makes sense.  They mention it in a few interviews.  I've posted them in the Bobby Blue thread (and/or maybe one other thread).  For example, one of them won the CGC 7.5 Chamber of Chills #19 and they lost out on other bids, too, when they said the bidding got a bit out of hand for them.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Telegan

[VintageComics]

On 8/26/2023 at 1:05 AM, toro said:

Okay, I admit that there are some weird results in some of my auctions that could just be a coincidence.  Someone else's  book in the same grade sells at $250 and mine sells for $145.  I get that can happen.

Today I am looking at my ASM #9 in 6.5 and it is currently at $750, the 5.5 is at $900 with 23 bids to my 14

Sorry for the whining.

Here are the two auctions

6.5 - https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FPREVIEW.ASP%3Fcode%3D2023aug%26session%3D2%23Item_1710187&id=1710187&itemType=0

5.5 - https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FPREVIEW.ASP%3Fcode%3D2023aug%26session%3D2%23Item_1710879&id=1710879&itemType=0

People CONSTANTLY shill bid their friends' auctions. I've always found it an abhorrent practice. 

I think shill bidding is as common as sniping as far as I'm concerned. The most common practice is just to ask your friends to do it for you up to the number just below you think it will sell for and then there is NO WAY to prove it.

I've posted this many times but I always have people "offering" to bid up my books for me. I never accept their offers. I always say, just bid what you are willing to pay...so my auctions sit with low numbers and low bid counts until the very end and then they do well anyway.

Personally, I don't think shill bidding does anything to the final price most of the time. All it does is give the appearance that a book may have vervent bidding, but buyers aren't dumb for the most part and now that we're almost 3 decades into the internet age the information playing field has been levelled and most people know what stuff should go for. 

One thing that NOBODY talks about is that it's usually "very reputable people" doing it but you'd never know it. I know this for a fact. 

It's one of the those "don't ask, dont' tell" scenarios where everyone is a "good guy" until they're caught. 

And since nobody is getting caught, MANY do it regularly. 

But they're all "good people" so it's OK. 

[VintageComics]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:54 PM, justafan said:

On 8/31/2023 at 2:19 PM, Motor City Rob said:

I think you're correct. Also, I don't think it's a secret. At the last Comic Connect auction, the sellers of the Bobby Blue Collection openly stated that they won at least one of the books from their own auction. Many of those books sold for ridiculous prices as well. Seems like a strange policy to allow sellers to bid. Not sure of the policies at the other houses. 

I guess for some of those situations it's like paying a 10% or 19.5% fee for the chance to have your book sold at auction for a price your comfortable with.  Why not just pay for a reserve price fee at that point.  So I wonder how it worked out for the Bobby Blue sellers.  Did they pay the auction house and then the auction house paid them back minus the commission?

If someone has a book that is going to lose more than the auction fee it's not uncommon for people to buy their own books back. 

I've never done it but I do know it happens. 

It's a shame because a REAL free market is a beautiful thing. Once you manipulate the market it causes all sorts of problems including bubbles and much larger price fluctuations than if it was just a true, honest, free market. 

[Professor K]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:31 PM, Telegan said:

Maybe I'm not looking at the back close enough, but I don't recall a sticker on most of my CL slabs, and I've bought quite a few.  Maybe I'm not paying attention to the back enough or don't really care.  I mean, I think I may have gotten a few (not sure), but in my last purchase, there were about 7 or 8 slabs, and none of them had it.

I would be scared to use goo gone on plastics - they don't even recommend it, but rather state to test it in an inconspicuous area first.  Another solution others have mentioned included olive oil.  It would possibly take a bit more elbow grease, but here's ETA Nick (miss that dude and his videos) showing how it's done :

 

What happened to ETA Nick? 

[Telegan]

On 8/31/2023 at 5:51 PM, Professor K said:

What happened to ETA Nick? 

It's in one of his last videos, I think.  He had always wanted to sell all his comics and exit the hobby before he died with them in a closet or something, I think.  He also wanted to sell his house and downsize and exit the hobby completely and had planned this for years, so he was happy to do it early.  He also said his sister was supposed to move down to where he lived but right before she did, she found out she got cancer, so he wants to help her, too (she basically raised him since he was really little, from what I recall him saying).  I think by the time he did his last videos he said he had sold a lot or most of his collection, so he was saying he was a few years ahead of schedule in selling everything.

[WolverineX]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:51 PM, Professor K said:

What happened to ETA Nick? 

 

[Tom's Hulks]

The last auction, they had a Incredible Hulk 5 and 6 in a 9.0 with a scan of the front and I emailed requesting a scan of the back. It took a week but they were sent well before the auction started so I had time for a closer look.  They even provided the number on the 5 since it was the old slab and I couldn't read it.  It may take longer if they don't have the book on site but they do respond.  I didn't win them as they both went over 11k. That appears to be about 3k over what the GPA has on them maybe?  At least with the research I did. If that is the case, then maybe shill bidding or someone has the money and the drive much more than myself.  These are the first of this high grade I've seen in awhile so demand could be higher.  

[drmccoy74]

All you really need are 2 people to run a book up. It's not always a shill bid. Somebody just might be pissed off at the other bidder and won't stop until he beats him.

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:26 PM, drmccoy74 said:

All you really need are 2 people to run a book up. It's not always a shill bid. Somebody just might be pissed off at the other bidder and won't stop until he beats him.

This is very true. Years ago, Me and RMI High Tech kept bidding against each other in various auctions, always going after the same high grade DD books. He knew it was me. I knew it was him. We'd confirm that via email from time to time, talking about how high we would or would not go.