CSG Ups Its Game with a New Label and Revised Grading Scale! 1 1

[jwhauser]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:43 PM, oluckydayo said:

I think the changes they made are to set the tone and style of the slab going forward.  Moving away from White/Green and to the black/gold is a pretty big adjustment.

Once they have that brand and style down and it's generally accepted and recognized by everyone there will always be room in the future to make subtle changes to things like format/layout and font.  That has happened at every other grading company over time.  

As for the round slabs, I like them and they're my personal favorite among the companies.  

I agree.  The changes that occurred were well thought out and intentional.  The "green" flips (even though I actually liked them) were too far from the industry norms and people didn't gravitate to them.  They changed the label and made the grading system more similar to what the consumers valued.  The cases have always been fantastic and I am so glad they didn't get away from something that everyone appreciated.

 

I appreciate the way this company listened to their customers and made changes.  The feedback on the new flips and grading system have been very positive on social media.  Just a matter of time before CSG makes the top 2 in the grading industry.  Well done CSG!

[TwoYewts]

New label is not bad but for those of us early adopters with OCD and have sent in complete sets if I wanted to update any cards in the set, it will no longer look uniform unless if I send in the rest of the cards to reholder. Kinda stinks.

[kglo]

@CGCRyan Want to know, if we submit a reholdering request after the promotional $5 offer (i.e. the $10 regular rate) - do all old CSG 9.5s still qualify to new CSG Gem-Mint 10s?  In other words, does the time limited offer affect cross-over rules? 

[MarkyVersace]

Apologies if this was already answered.

 

I know that 9.5 Gem Mints will cross to 10 Gem Mints with the new scale and holder, but what will happen to Pristine 10s if reholdered? I assume it would be a Gem Mint 10, but that wouldn't make any sense to get reholdered for a lesser grade.

 

[rthodges]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:49 PM, MarkyVersace said:

Apologies if this was already answered.

 

I know that 9.5 Gem Mints will cross to 10 Gem Mints with the new scale and holder, but what will happen to Pristine 10s if reholdered? I assume it would be a Gem Mint 10, but that wouldn't make any sense to get reholdered for a lesser grade.

 

Yes, they said it would transfer to a gem mt 10.  Looks like holding the green pristine 10s is the smarter choice, unless the market grants the black labels a higher premium.

[micky 8]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:01 PM, oluckydayo said:

It could be argued that of the 4 major players right now (BGS, PSA, CSG, SGC) that BGS is falling behind the others slowly as time goes on.

They are grading less cards per month/day, they just finally re-opened an affordable tier a couple of weeks ago.  They have a pretty severe backlog still with an ETA of a few months from now.    And they haven't had an acquisition or influx of investment like PSA/CSG has.

SGC has even overtaken them in many people's opinion as it relates to public perception, resale value, and vintage grading.  

Whether we like it or not, I think the hobby and public have spoken that the BGS method is less preferable than the others.   CSG here has at least found a bit of a of a balance.  Give a 10 Gem Mint that compares with every other company's 10, and also retain the 'Perfect 10' to give a chase grade that is rarely seen.

I dont think Bgs is as out of the loop as people think, sgc is grading more volume currently but there still trusted with the biggest cards in the hobby, they still have a solid foundation of collectors who will only go to them with monster cards for the look of the slab and trusted grading established over a long period of time. Its gonna take Sgc and Csg a long time to get to that level but I think csg is in the best position to get there. Sgc been around since 1998 if they could they would! Agree the scale change was 100% nessacary to compete tho, especially when psa opens bulk csg needed this or it could of gotten scary! now ya got the price point an awesome slab and the scale to boot.. I think a color change for the perfect 10 from csg would be cool, maybe a hologram flip??? 

[micky 8]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:29 PM, rthodges said:

The ratio we used to get 9.5’s are hopefully now going to be the ratio we get 10’s.  Seems like this makes more sense than the previous scale where basically 10’s just don’t exist before 1990.  HGA was doing this stingy nonsense as well, but they don’t have quality slabs or a proactive marketing team to rebound from this mistake.

It already appears as if CSG is going to become a strict version of SCG; same grading system, just harsher grading (55:45 allowed for one side only?!).  SGC uses the 9.5 Mt+ scale.

The important part is 10’s need to be achievable.  The hobby demands it, otherwise they just stop grading with them.

edit:  I stand corrected on the 55:45 rule.  Either they loosened up on it or I misread it a few days ago.

yeah 55/45 all around, real happy about that, the appearence of 55/45 is still really good, especially with bowman chromes there slightly tilted at times hardly noticable, some brands are never 50/50 all around or extremely rare 

[CGCRyan]

On 3/30/2022 at 5:33 PM, kglo said:

@CGCRyan Want to know, if we submit a reholdering request after the promotional $5 offer (i.e. the $10 regular rate) - do all old CSG 9.5s still qualify to new CSG Gem-Mint 10s?  In other words, does the time limited offer affect cross-over rules? 

Yes, all CSG Gem Mint 9.5s in the old green label will still cross to Gem Mint 10s in the new black label, the cost per card will just be the regular ReHolder fee of $10 per card.

[finitefinds]

I see Pristine 10s are showing as Gem Mint 10s when verifying the certification.  Are the Pristine 10s going to be combined with the Gem Mint 10s in the pop report even if they are not reholdered?

[Home Slice]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:49 AM, KB! said:

CSG needs to waive the reholder fee for those customers that spent an extra $10 per card for subgrades.

Agreed

[Scottish Punk]

Can I send in an order for re-holders and a bulk submission in the same box?  Separate paper work of course.  I am going to send in any 9.5's that I received from my first order and would like to do another bulk to get try out the new grading scale.

[jbenn26]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:06 AM, Scottish Punk said:

Can I send in an order for re-holders and a bulk submission in the same box?  Separate paper work of course.  I am going to send in any 9.5's that I received from my first order and would like to do another bulk to get try out the new grading scale.

I did this in two separate smaller boxes inside of one larger box

[CGCRyan]

On 4/4/2022 at 8:06 AM, Scottish Punk said:

Can I send in an order for re-holders and a bulk submission in the same box?  Separate paper work of course.  I am going to send in any 9.5's that I received from my first order and would like to do another bulk to get try out the new grading scale.

Yes, you can send the Bulk submission and the ReHolder submission in the same package. Just make sure that you include both packing slips.

[Scottish Punk]

Perfect, thanks guys for the replies.  Will get this around this week.

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:04 PM, Rocklin65s said:

Subgrades are not helpful on Perfect 10. Of course all subgrades are 10s... why is this the only grade with subgrades? This makes no sense at all

THIS.

Was at the LCS yesterday and literally everyone said the same thing. It's a Perfect 10, which implies inherent 10s across the board. Having the difference on non-Perfect 10s would have made a huge difference. 

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 3/28/2022 at 8:09 AM, Glen Campbell said:

Actually, I am not.  The old Gem Mint 9.5 definition is exactly the same as the new Mint+ 9.5 definition.  If you read their grading standard and not the title of the category, they are identical.

I don’t disagree with what they are doing, but they need to update their definitions to reflect what they are doing.  

Bruh just stop. It's not as complicated as you are trying to make it. No one is getting screwed here with the grades. If anything, they are doing you a favor by just automatically upping all 9.5s to 10s. 

In terms of what you are freaking out about, there is a formula that CSG has that weights the different subgrades differently. That's it. Like I said, it's not complicated. 

 

[ne1seenmykeys]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:06 AM, jyo1912 said:

@RyanCSG Yes, with hundreds of cards to maybe get reslabbed, getting clarity on this is really important. I have 2 important questions to add to this: (1) what does a 9 grade w/ two 9.5 subs equate to in the new grading scale? Does that become the new 9.5 Mint+? (2) does the 10% member discount apply to the $5 reslab fee? This could save $100 on 200 cards. Thanks.

It depends on what got a 9.5

Just like other companies, they don't just take the average of the 4 subgrades. Different subgrades are weighted differently. 

[ne1seenmykeys]

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Edited April 4, 2022 by ne1seenmykeys

[ne1seenmykeys]

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Edited April 4, 2022 by ne1seenmykeys

[northkorea]

[TLDR; skip to bottom] Because of an inborn need to beat dead horses, here is why the new 9.5 MINT+ need to be defined:

The original premise of CCG reentering the sports card market was the CoVID driven alternate asset classes bubble. The marketing went along the lines of using AI, then validated by graders, would somehow be a better option (or at least an equivalent one at a substantial cost savings) for collectors.

The idea was to have four categories of 19 subgrades, creating a system of 20 master grades.

In an effort to justify a newly designed label and decrease labor validation time, they simplified the process by amending some of the top tiers.

A green Perfect 10 (defined as all 10s) would be given for any card that had subgrades paid for AND scored four 10s.

A green Pristine 10 (defined as three 10s and one 9.5) would be given for any 10 card that failed to meet both requirements for a Perfect 10.

A green Gem Mint 9.5 (defined as any combination of subgrades with not more than one subgrade below 9.5 and no subgrades below 9, excepting the two categories defined above) would be given when appropriate.

The new black system eliminates the BGS mimicking Pristine 10 category by merging it into the lower Gem Mint category. In a decision that can be only justified as a marketing move, all Gem Mint cards would now be graded as 10s.

These combined actions eliminated the Pristine category. While those holding Pristine and Perfect 10s may be upset by this, they really have no reason to be. Just keep the green holders. Problem solved!

The problem is the introduction of this new, undefined and adhoc 9.5 Mint+ category. Since green 9s of any sub grades will cross to black 9s, and green 9.5s of any sub grades will cross to black 10s, there is no room for a black 9.5 under the green system.

This, by definition, means there was a flaw in the green system. Again, by definition, a black 9.5 would need to somehow grade above the maximum green 9 (centering 10 corners 10 edges 9 surface 9 or centering 10 corners 10 edges 10 surface 8.5) and below the minimum 9.5 (centering 9 corners 9.5 edges 9.5 surface 9.5). Under the green grading system, such a grade would not exist.

This is a problem. I can understand the justification of removing subgrades. However, insisting on charging people to have to resubmit for grading the maximum 9 (as defined above) seems like a bait and switch proposition. While few might fall into the specific (10/10/9/9) category, as defined to be the maximum, if the new definition of 9.5 includes subgrades as low as 9/9/9.5/9.5, the potentially impacted previous users of the service widen the berth of qualification for the black 9.5 grade.

If this doesn't get addressed, I could absolutely see this devolving into a class action lawsuit, if the amount of money at stake (total fees for anyone who ever paid CCG for CSG subgrade service) is large enough.

Clearly, a solution that the community would accept is: grant those with subgrades a limited time to transition those cards, for a waived fee, to the new black labels. Since the holders haven't changed, you can, quite literally, reuse the holders that the cards arrived in.

For the non-legal (yet still important) issues, I propose the following solutions:

Make a special edition PERFECT label for Perfect 10s. Give it a special holo-foil background around the 10, with a bold PERFECT, below it. Don't waste effort forcing the four 10s onto the label. That is, as folks have indicated, implied by the word PERFECT.

Define the black 9.5 MINT+, and afford those who hold subgrades that would qualify a right to have their cards "upgraded" on the new system. Unlike the green 9.5s being relabeled to 10s, this grade would represent an actual upgrade. As such, holders would need to pay the discounted $5 fee to transition to the new labels.

*IF* the new system also involves doing away with the prior lowest grade rules (no master grade more than one full point higher than the lowest subgrade, and no master grade higher than the second lowest subgrade), any qualifying cards with subs should receive a bump under the same rules as the black 9.5 MINT+.

What will set you apart as a grading company is transparency. As such, you don't need to publish the thresholds for black grades, but you should bump up grades that the black algorithm would give a higher grade for. After all, you don't want to, knowingly, be issuing 9s for cards that you *KNOW* define as black 9.5s