I think CGC should slow down with the Pedigree designations. They are cheapening it. 1 1

[action1kid]

.

[action1kid]

I know. $$$$$$$$$!$

[MusterMark]

Disagree

[Telegan]

Even if you want to slow it down, how would you slow it down?  If a "collection" qualifies as a pedigree, are you saying they should change the qualifications for being a pedigree?  I actually like some of the history behind pedigrees, so if they exist by definition, I'd like to know more about them and see more of them.  Heck, I even like some of the stories behind "colllections" that don't qualify as pedigrees.  These things lend some history to comic collecting.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:44 PM, MusterMark said:

Disagree

Also disagree. This smacks of someone has self-interest at heart.

A pedigree is a pedigree. If it fits the criteria of the pedigree then you just can't shut the door on new collections that come to light.

There are hundreds of thousands of personal OO collections all over the world. There is only a very small percentage of OO collections that have agreed pedigree status...so the premise of 'stop classifying books as pedigrees' is frankly nonsense.

As I said, if it's a pedigree...then it's a pedigree.

 

[MrBedrock]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:01 PM, action1kid said:

I know.

Do you?

[grendel013]

where is the definition? I would like to start my own pedigree.

[manetteska]

Which Pedigree(s) do you feel cheapen "it"?

[action1kid]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:18 PM, manetteska said:

Which Pedigree(s) do you feel cheapen "it"?I see the term used too liberally in places like EBay.

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:59 PM, action1kid said:

.

Experienced collectors are savvy enough to value each pedigree on its own merits. Most collectors would not value a Church copy and a Crippen copy equally just because they're both "pedigrees."

The pedigree designation provides extra information. While that information may not always mean much, it can't hurt, and the background stories are interesting to many of us.

Edited October 13, 2023 by jimbo_7071

[lou_fine]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:01 AM, action1kid said:

I know. $$$$$$$$$!$

I believe you might be confusing official CGC pedigrees with the CGC "named collections" (eg. Bobby Blue Collection) and then there's the CGC books affixed with stickers by the auction houses themselves (eg. Feed Store Collection) for the sole purpose of helping to market the books.  

The last and most recent collection to receive official CGC pedigree status was the Promise Collection and if I remember correctly, that was back in the Spring of 2021.  The one before that was the Chinatown pedigree and I believe that one came in the summer of 2020 and I personally believe that both of these collections were fully deserving of their official CGC pedigree status.    

Certainly can't say the same with that large number of so-called pedigrees that they added back in July of 2019 when they were introducing their brand new pedigree label and decided that they better throw a bunch of new pedigrees into the mix in order to help promote their new pedigree label.  Especially when it came to the Cookville's, Eldon's, and Harold Curtis because I personally felt that they did not meet the most important criteria for pedigree designation, namely the requirement that the collection must consist of exceptional high grade quallity books.  Or to be more precise, how many or what tiny percentage of the books from these 3 huge massive collections actually graded out to CGC 9.0 or above (Answer: very very few).  Then again, I guess it met the other criteria for pedigree designation, namely the requirment that the collection must consist of a considerable number of books from an original owner, and I guess this must have sent visions to the CCG ownersip group of thousands upon thousands of "new pedigree" books being sent back into CCS/CGC for reholdering and possibly even for pressing and regrading.    

Edited October 13, 2023 by lou_fine

[sfcityduck]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:23 PM, Paul (GG) © ® ™⚽️💙 said:

There is only a very small percentage of OO collections that have agreed pedigree status.

 

“Agreed status” is no longer the criteria. CGC decides even for books that no one has seen.

[Cat-Man_America]

This is the 13th post on this topic and it's Friday the 13th! 

 

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:48 AM, sfcityduck said:

“Agreed status” is no longer the criteria. CGC decides even for books that no one has seen.

I take your point on that but actually that was a typo on my part. I meant to say achieved pedigree status. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Paul (GG) © ® ™⚽️💙

[zzutak]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:59 AM, action1kid said:

I think CGC should slow down with the Pedigree designations.  They are cheapening it.

Respectfully, to insinuate that CGC has recently flooded the market with new pedigree designations is simply Fake News^TM.    CGC has been recognizing an average of one (1) new pedigree per year during the past 15 years.  Since 2008, CGC added more than two new pedigrees only once --  in 2019, when they decided to finally officially recognize four exceptional Golden Age collections that had long been considered "pedigree quality" by most serious GA collectors.  Furthermore, CGC has only added two (2) new pedigrees during the past four years. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:30 AM, lou_fine said:

Especially when it came to the Cookvilles, Eldon's, and Harold Curtis because I personally felt that they did not meet the most important criteria for pedigree designation, namely the requirement that the collection must consist of exceptional high grade quality books.

One thing that's worth mentioning about those pedigrees is that they all have markings that are recognizable to collectors. For that reason, that story behind those collections was of interest to many GA collectors long before CGC approved the pedigree designations. That's a good enough reason to acknowledge the pedigree status on the labels.

I would support recognizing the Cape Cod collection for the same reason.

Some collections, like the Guy Holcombe books, are trickier because they are interesting to collectors but fall far short when it comes to grades. At least the three collections mentioned above have many books in the VF range, which most collectors consider the threshold for high grade. Maybe books from known lower-grade original-owner collections could be tracked with a notation on the label the same way that the provenance of some second-owner books (Ruben Blades, Nicolas Cage, etc.) are tracked.

Edited October 13, 2023 by jimbo_7071

[Marty Mann]

Always enjoy these Pedigree discussions ...so many different views  on the subject..

[aardvark88]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:59 PM, Telegan said:

 I actually like some of the history behind pedigrees, so if they exist by definition, I'd like to know more about them and see more of them.  Heck, I even like some of the stories behind "colllections" that don't qualify as pedigrees.  These things lend some history to comic collecting.

Am looking forward to the Grandma Blue Promise collection, first fantastic 'pedigree' of 2024.

[lou_fine]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:30 PM, lou_fine said:

Especially when it came to the Cookville's, Eldon's, and Harold Curtis because I personally felt that they did not meet the most important criteria for pedigree designation, namely the requirement that the collection must consist of exceptional high grade quallity books. 

 

On 10/13/2023 at 6:06 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

At least the three collections mentioned above have many books in the VF range, which most collectors consider the threshold for high grade.

Well, I would most certainly hope that many of the already graded copies have been certified in the VF range, especially considering that most collectors would not have bothered to send their lower condition copies in for grading.  

Correct me if I am wrong which would not be surprising, but I believe the overwhelming majority of the copies that we have seen here on the boards from these 3 "pedigree" collections would grade out only in the CGC 5.5 to 7.5 grade range, with very very few in CGC 9.0 or above.    

Definitely nothing or nowhere even close to what we would see from the overwhelming majority of the Church, Allentown, or Promise pedigrees.  

Edited October 13, 2023 by lou_fine

[ThothAmon]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:29 AM, Marty Mann said:

Always enjoy these Pedigree discussions ...so many different views  on the subject..

Marty’s collection is a perfect example, pedigree status for sure if only in my book.