Hulk 181 value stamp page, what am I missing 2 2

[Mike Oliver]

So when ever a hulk 181 that is missing the value stamp CGC always notes it missing from page 10 but when counting the pages it’s on page 19 What am I missing 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:00 PM, Mike Oliver said:

So when ever a hulk 181 that is missing the value stamp CGC always notes it missing from page 10 but when counting the pages it’s on page 19 What am I missing 

I'm not sure but here goes foot in mouth, they might mean the 10th wrap and cgc is calling it as a whole page, ie each book normally carries 12 or 16 pages, I forget which it is. As opposed to 100 pages, or varying ages, ie bronze copper etc.

Like a centerfold would have both "pages" at the staples would be considered by cgc as one page? And the subsequent "pages" go through at the staples. If I'm not being clear, it's been a while since I thought about it. Others may count pages more often, but I "think sometimes 'pages and wraps' are interchangeable?"

Edited November 7, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[thehumantorch]

On 11/6/2023 at 5:12 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm not sure but here goes smoothly in mouth, they might mean the 10th wrap and cgc is calling apit as a whole page, ie each book normally carries 12 or 16 pages, I forget which it is. As opposed to 100 pages, or varying ages, ie bronze copper etc.

Like a centerfold would have both "pages" at the staples would be considered by cgc as one page? And the subsequent "pages" go through at the staples. If I'm not being clear, it's been a while since I thought about it. Others may count pages more often, but I "think sometimes 'pages and wraps' are interchangeable?"

Agreed.  Page 19 would be the front of the 10th wrap.  Perhaps CGC considers the term wrap confusing?

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:28 PM, thehumantorch said:

Agreed.  Page 19 would be the front of the 10th wrap.  Perhaps CGC considers the term wrap confusing?

Wow thanks for quoting me, I fixed the auto correct...

Someone made me look up while typing, and that's how it goes sometimes.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

Glad I already have a tagline next to my profile 😂 should go in the out of context thread haha

[Mike Oliver]

That makes perfect since thanks guys!

[Lightning55]

The term wrap can be confusing.

CGC is not referring to wraps in the case of Hulk 181.  It is on the 10th page, the 10th leaf as you count through, which is not the 10th wrap. 

There is no 10th wrap, since there are only 8 wraps in the entirety of the book, not counting the cover.

It is actually on the 7th wrap.  The first wrap is the splash page / last page of the book.  Then you are counting wraps as you move to the center of the book.  In this case, as in most standard length comics from the period, the centerfold is wrap #8.

The stamp is not on any of the 4 sides of the centerfold pages. It is on the next level from the center, so wrap #7.

[Lightning55]

Also not to be confused with story page numbering, which is usually ignored.  Although some may add that tag to be more specific (e.g. panel clipped out from bottom of story page x).

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:27 PM, Lightning55 said:

Also not to be confused with story page numbering, which is usually ignored.  Although some may add that tag to be more specific (e.g. panel clipped out from bottom of story page x).

Thanks for the further explanation, I was wondering how the 7th wrap meant pg 10 to cgc?

Thanks for the further explanation, I was wondering how the 7th wrap meant pg 19 to cgc?

Ah never-ending, he said page 19, I missed it, I was trying to do math

@Lightning55 I haven't looked at a hulk 181 missing the stamp in a minute. No worries 

Edited November 7, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[Lightning55]

Yeah, it's kind of weird sometimes.  In the "old days", and maybe still today somewhere, each story page was numbered.  Non-story pages (ads, letters to the editor, coming attractions, pin-ups, etc.) had no numbers, not counted, just ignored in the progression.

In Hulk 181, and probably many others, the actual pages are numbered, like in a prose book or reference book. But there are no actual number on any of the non-story pages, although they did count as pages in the progression. 

So in Hulk 181, the right centerfold page says "17". Four non-story pages follow, unnumbered.  Then the story picks up again on a page numbered "22".

So in this instance, the stamp is on the page that has the silent number "19". Which is leaf #10, wrap #7, a non-story page (letters to the editor page). So easy, right?

As I was looking at the pages, I see that there is a letter to the editor by Mary Jo Duffy, who later became a Marvel editor???

In the photo below, the letter starts on the left page, moves to the right.

[Artboy99]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Thanks for the further explanation, I was wondering how the 7th wrap meant pg 10 to cgc?

Thanks for the further explanation, I was wondering how the 7th wrap meant pg 19 to cgc?

Ah never-ending, he said page 19, I missed it, I was trying to do math

@Lightning55 I haven't looked at a hulk 181 missing the stamp in a minute. No worries 

I currently have 3 Hulk 181's but all 3 are CGC encapsulated. It is why i actually like the facsimile editions that are exact replicas of the original including the interior.

You could cut the stamp out of a facsimile edition, then you could have a look.....

[sledgehammer]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:28 PM, thehumantorch said:

Agreed.  Page 19 would be the front of the 10th wrap.  Perhaps CGC considers the term wrap confusing?

There are only 32 "pages" front and back sides, and they are on 16 pages

Each "wrap" is 4 story pages, page 1,2, 31 and 32 are on the first "wrap". So there are only 8 wraps., but the total page count, leafing through the book, would be 16 physical pages.

"Page 10" in this case, refers to #10, of 16. That's because the entire "wrap" is not missing.

It's exactly like the pin up page in ASM #3 is always a qualified missing page 12 ( of 16).

It's a mess.

[sledgehammer]

On 11/7/2023 at 6:08 AM, Artboy99 said:

You could cut the stamp out of a facsimile edition, then you could have a look.....

If I do that, the value would drop to $1.

[grendel013]

The term leaf isn't often used but it would be the appropriate term in this instance. I learned that from an episode of Pawn Stars. All I know is that when I'm checking a "standard" comic for completeness, I count 8 leaves (but I still call pages) to get to the staples. A page is half a leaf. A leaf is half a wrap. Folio is ANOTHER term for wrap. A standard comic is 32 pages, 16 leaves and 8 wraps. Now that's a wrap! 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:28 AM, sledgehammer said:

There are only 32 "pages" front and back sides

How many folios is that? 

[jsilverjanet]

[The Lions Den]

I wonder if the graders still enter it in the notes as 8-8?    

[Dr. Balls]

I still hold firm that if that MVS was of Turner D. Century and not a scantily-clad Sheena, we'd have more complete 181s.

[CJ Design]

[ThothAmon]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:27 AM, Dr. Balls said:

hold firm