ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Steven Valdez]

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

[MyNameIsLegion]

anyone think there's an insurance angle here? A collector files a loss because they recertify or reholder a book that was tampered with and it come back a lower grade and worth significantly less? What the biggest $$$ amount known to be dodgy so far? $15K? 

[agamoto]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:06 AM, MAR1979 said:

They could have performed damage control/containment they did not all in the interest of saving a few $'s. The situation is fluid and may very well sublimate to the point its picked up by mainstream news outlets with sensational headlines as Steven Valdez mentioned a few posts above. When that happens their inaction due to miser level stinginess may cost them dearly.

We did get a pretty sweet little Christmas video out of the gang about their most treasured comics. None of them apparently an ASM 194, 238, 252, 300 or IH 181, 340. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:08 AM, Steven Valdez said:

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

My collection resides in the Low Rent Golden Age District - I'll probably be fine.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

I'd love to say my collecting focus dodges this situation but still need a 238 / 252 and 300 for my run. this is a freaking nightmare for me as well. Thankfully I'm not looking for MJ copies or anything but still just to know that so many of these are target books...............

[agamoto]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:09 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

anyone think there's an insurance angle here? A collector files a loss because they recertify or reholder a book that was tampered with and it come back a lower grade and worth significantly less? What the biggest $$$ amount known to be dodgy so far? $15K? 

The 252 MJ 9.8 that kicked off this party was around the 15K mark I think, but given the ease with which any swingin' , Tom or Harry can stuff a lower grade inner well into a higher grade label and send it off for laundry service, who knows for sure what the upper limits actually are.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

I'll stick to my cheaper issues for now.

Edited December 27, 2023 by AbsoluteCarnage

[agamoto]

Giordano... Testing the profanity filter.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:12 PM, agamoto said:

The 252 MJ 9.8 that kicked off this party was around the 15K mark I think, but given the ease with which any swingin' , Tom or Harry can stuff a lower grade inner well into a higher grade label and send it off for laundry service, who knows for sure what the upper limits actually are.

If someone uncovers a high value / high grade early SA key book that is indeed a Purple book in as blue label that's gonna set things off. 

[agamoto]

Profanity filter works! Let's see you get around THAT, scammers!

[RonS2112]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:33 AM, pdags said:

I get it.  Maybe on Christmas Eve there wasn't quite enough evidence to show how bad things were...  But I've worked big jobs.  If you're above a certain title and making above a certain salary you work when needed; even if it's Christmas (Which I've done).

 

A little perspective, please.  I used to work on an Air Force Combat operations crew. THAT was a job that required working on Christmas.  Comic slabbing is decidedly NOT.

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:11 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

I'd love to say my collecting focus dodges this situation but still need a 238 / 252 and 300 for my run. this is a freaking nightmare for me as well. Thankfully I'm not looking for MJ copies or anything but still just to know that so many of these are target books...............

Patience my friend! IMHO the 3 issues you mentioned are going to sink below 2019 FMV or possibly below 2017 FMV's. My guess is that will occur sometime between Jan~April 2024

BTW folks I have all 3 of those books, all mine were self submitted, glad I don't sell comics, but sad that if I ever do probably will only be able to get fraction of the value they possessed at start of this month. Glad though all my DC Digests appear safe

Edited December 27, 2023 by MAR1979

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:14 AM, agamoto said:

Profanity filter works! Let's see you get around THAT, scammers!

OMG that 's AI......

[agamoto]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

If someone uncovers a high value / high grade early SA key book that is indeed a Purple book in as blue label that's gonna set things off. 

Only a matter of time... There's a lot of old qualified high grade books and 0.5 blues without their pin up pages or ad pages missing out there.

[Point Five]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Steven Valdez said:

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

I understand why the revelations in this thread are deeply upsetting. But there are absolute oceans of graded copies of each of these books already out there. I think your chances of randomly hitting 'problem books' are very low -- and even lower with reasonable due diligence (making sure the book visually matches its grade, which I assume you'd be doing anyway).

Unless you regularly buy 4- and 5-figure slabbed copies of these exact keys, you're probably fine.

 

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:17 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

OMG that 's AI......

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:18 AM, agamoto said:

Only a matter of time... There's a lot of old qualified high grade books and 0.5 blues without their pin up pages or ad pages missing out there.

hmm, my Batman #181 missing the CF and all my MJI did sell at MCS, some just this week....

Edited December 27, 2023 by MyNameIsLegion

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:16 AM, MAR1979 said:

Patience my friend! IMHO the 3 issues you mentioned are going to sink below 2019 FMV possiblly below 2016 FMV's. My guess is that will occur sometime between Jan-April 2024>

BTW folks I have all 3 of those books, all mine were self submitted, glad I don't sell comics, but sad that if I ever do probably will only be able to get fraction of the value they possessed at start of this month.

I would say the opposite might happen - if you print out your packing slips/order forms and show provenance that it's your copy that you submitted, that might help it on the resale. I mean, it will require a stranger to not think that you are one of the people that did the ol' switcheroo - but most scammers wouldn't bother with trying to fake provenance and just go for the quick sale to someone who isn't in the know.

For the nightmare scenario:

I'd suggest to everyone who has one of these books in the crosshairs of slab switchers print out their documentation. If CGC were to be sold to someone else and the database is compromised, you'll only have hard copy to prove your submission. And, again - I say that's the NIGHTMARE scenario and not likely to ever happen, but I've seen funny things happen when a large business goes down, and someone else picks up the pieces - especially if there's some major liability floating around. I don't expect this is the kind of thing to take down a major entity like CGC, but it doesn't help their company in the least.

[grendel013]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Steven Valdez said:

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

I like to buy raw books and submit myself. I'll continue to do that. I rarely buy already graded but for those 9.8s that I purchased already slabbed, I feel safe as they are not targeted keys. I'm talking Mage 6, Justice Machine Annual 1, Magik 4 and Veronica 28. I really doubt someone messed with these. 

[William-James88]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Steven Valdez said:

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

This has literally been an issue with slabbed books since the beginning. If the uncertainty of your pin ups not being there didn't stop you from buying a slabbed book before, I don't see why it would stop you now.