ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[MatterEaterLad]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:01 PM, Ron C. said:

I disagree with the contention that no criticism of CGC is allowed on that FB site. 

That's hilarious. 

It's because he deletes all criticism and bans the posters, so YOU never see it.

[Ron C.]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

That's hilarious. 

It's because he deletes all criticism and bans the posters, so YOU never see it.

I have never had anything deleted there, so I can't speak to that.

CGC does need to issue some type of "official" statement though.

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:25 PM, Stefan_W said:

I can see the messages from Ebay buyers: "I am taking a big risk on your Hulk 181 so I think an offer of about 10-20% of the list price would be fair." 

Honestly, CGC graded books aren't worth any more than raw now.

"I'm interested in that IH181 but it's in a CGC case so we'll need to crack it open so I can look inside"

[skybolt]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:53 PM, grendel013 said:

I don't see any Newsstands...

Not yet.

[BrashL]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:41 PM, VintageComics said:

Let's not start yelling fire in a movie theater just yet. 

No one’s yelling, we can all see the fire. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:57 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Um...so do you think this is also happening with Voldy's slabs? 

There's no reason to think it has been.  They're definitely more secure and tamper-evident.

I've never seen an incident proving otherwise.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:10 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Honestly, CGC graded books aren't worth any more than raw now.

"I'm interested in that IH181 but it's in a CGC case so we'll need to crack it open so I can look inside"

Probably too big a generalization given that only a few books are known to have been compromised. 

I think people will be cautious with Hulk 181, NM 98 newsy in 9.8, ASM 234 (edit: should read 238) in 9.8, ASM 300 in 9.8, and maybe a generalized caution with 9.8 books that have MJ inserts. There are also a couple of low print run 9.8 variants that were targets. That seems like a pretty tiny portion of the graded comic marketplace. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Stefan_W

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:14 PM, BrashL said:

No one’s yelling, we can all see the fire. 

 

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:17 PM, Stefan_W said:

Probably too big a generalization given that only a few books are known to have been compromised. 

I think people will be cautious with Hulk 181, NM 98 newsy in 9.8, ASM 234 in 9.8, ASM 300 in 9.8, and maybe a generalized caution with 9.8 books that have MJ inserts. There are also a couple of low print run 9.8 variants that were targets. That seems like a pretty tiny portion of the graded comic marketplace. 

234? did you mean ASM 238

[universal soldier]

This is better than watching Game of Thrones for the first time. Today was almost better than that WTF  moment at the end of the Red Wedding episode.

I don't own a ton of slabs but now thinking of going back and looking at a couple bigger Silver purchases from last year to make myself feel better. At least the books uncovered so far are all part of my OO collection or not slabbed.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:25 PM, MAR1979 said:

234? did you mean ASM 238

Yeah. I am just putting the finishing touches on turkey stock so I can make turkey noodle soup and my head was not in the game there. 

[BrashL]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:30 PM, VintageComics said:

So, so far this still seems to be an eBay centric problem. 

Newsstand 9.9 knows who the original scammer is and said he has seen him selling on Instagram and at shows. Even if this was just one guy (and it’s not) it’s not limited to eBay. 

[jsilverjanet]

The integrity of the case has been lost

in a manner that is simple and easy for most people with little skill to take advantage of

I made this statement earlier in the thread

the result of CGC's lack of QC has made this problem greater than it normally would be

issues with incorrect labeling, poor quality in terms of the case (newton rings), poor shipping practices has increased the # of reholders they have to process thus creating a volume that is difficult for CGC's QC to take the necessary steps to prevent this problem from occurring

if the volume was lower, then more time could be spent inspecting reholders, but because they are getting so many slabs that need to be fixed, they skipped that step in order to keep up with a demand that they themselves created

 

 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:49 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now?

Stickers!

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:02 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I am so glad i stopped submitting books when their prices changed, i would hate to be a seller of any cgc graded book at this time

Yes! I sold all of mine before I moved overseas - but I took it a step further - not even a bag and a board now! Raw copies of a whole bunch of my favorite Bronze Age books, magazines and a few Treasury Editions. 

[Iconic1s]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:46 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 12/27/2023 at 10:49 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now?

Stickers!

He’ll let you know anywhere between six months and three years from now…

“Our thorough development process included six months to solve the dilemma of securing the book without the inner well, so the creative design solution was a real breakthrough”, said Nelson. (Note: we all know what happened with this idea!  Inner well came back.)

“book submissions beginning the 4th of April, 2016. Managing to incorporate the most advanced archival materials, the redesigned, patent-pending holder improves upon CGC’s original holder with a sturdier construction and new crystal-clear display that offers superior optical clarity. Research and development of the second generation holder, which spanned over three years, was orchestrated by Matt Nelson.”

CGC's Director of Operations Harshen Patel recently said, “This new holder is a quantum leap forward and redefines the standards for preservation and display. The clarity we achieved showcases comics on a level that will drastically change the way collectors view CGC encapsulation”.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Iconic1s
Added Patel quote and inner well note

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:14 AM, The_Investor said:

Someone here should contact one of the big media companies and make sure they cover this scam. The legacy media will contact CGC for further info considering this could be a scam on a larger scale most people think. Make sure the Media outlet is not owned by Blackstone considering they want to reshape the world in their image...lol

The problem is most big media companies don't see this as news. Realistically, comic book collecting - far removed from the movies or toys - is still a niche hobby. And the part of it that uses CGC is an even smaller niche within THAT. 

The ONLY reason actual comic books get a mention in big media, is when something sells in the millions of dollars, or a collection sells in an auction bringing in millions of dollars. 

Unless this becomes much, much bigger than we think, and involves something more sensationalized, it's mostly going to be a story in CBR, an investigative thread on the CGC forum, and a bunch of youtube videos.

[Lightning55]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:28 AM, namisgr said:

While I'm far from an apologist for the company, I think CGC is on holiday and so understand why there wouldn't be a formal response.  I'd expect one after the first of the new year.

Not everyone there is on holiday.  I got invoiced yesterday and today. There goes that theory.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 3:01 AM, Ron C. said:

I disagree with the contention that no criticism of CGC is allowed on that FB site. You can't post Voldy books and you need to be civil in your interactions with others. 

Well give it a shot. Go on there and start talking about this scandal and let us know what happens.

[jsilverjanet]

those pom poms are getting heavier and heavier by the day