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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 7:52 PM, William-James88 said:

Gonna disagree on this one simply because of how widespread and varied, in terms of book value, that was over time. CGC messing up at times feels more probable than an organized comic crime ring that did this on random books sold from a multitude of stores. 

It certainly doesn't explain this 9.8 with spine ticks, for instance,  which couldn't have been scammed the same way due to it being a signature series.

Plus there's the idea that 9.8 means mint from the printing press, so it can include bindery tears and colour breaks, as people discuss in one of the many "is this a 9.8?" threads on the site.

To be clear, I am not saying the spidey 252 that sparked this is legit, it isn't.  I just do not think we are looking at the same scam happening all the time everywhere. I feel that absolves CGC too much.

I was waxing rhetorically, but my hypothesis does hold water when it comes to being a potential reason for why objective, properly graded 9.0 books somehow earn 9.8's, or in this case, fine themselves in 9.8 slabs.   

On 12/27/2023 at 8:37 PM, William-James88 said:

 

On 12/27/2023 at 4:51 PM, boreds said:

So this 9.8 Mark Jewellers Secret Wars 8 is at $3,349 and ends in less than two hours. I believe it was a member of the boards who posted this book, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It looks like a legit 9.8, coming from a trustworthy source.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285600398199?hash=item427f1c3b77:g:Th8AAOSwTGRldTw6&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Dj2Y3tWA6wo0gzpW81ETKPk7HQFcwc5pAndirD%2FbJ77Y9s3lhxgIfQ%2BlKIRAgGDYqt%2BHOc%2B4fZ7fbV4F%2BbpBKC2Q5XJj1vZLKcwEpNhc9KQI4Bkw6ZzxBwfUUL7%2FsYVWPC0QD0ZLr1%2B8YT1iSSwlfv1%2FsKtOjD6s8BnPP80iane%2FoNZFSnpMW9uMtQ%2FcQDEoUII5N4X%2FqYHZFzsHEnQztjLloXUVfhVlv4zHDMKu3AzmYvx0w%2FbgI46M9uf4FFNz%2B2qdvqeympWOFhGje9g4wQ%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9qql96VYw

Meanwhile our friend Briva's book "sold" for over 21k a few weeks ago. I doubt this was an actual sale, as he ended it early and was obviously shill bidded to the moon... Yet still I feel real bad for the trustworthy seller who is going to take a massive hit because of scumbag Briva. 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/235352700169?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m43.l1123&plmtId=700008&mesgId=3016&mkcid=8&ch=osgood&bu=43473349826&trkId=b9ade879-3043-4bd1-bc5d-bf16a474ebcd&cnvId=700003&recoId=235352700169&recoPos=1

Woah, I thought Comic Selects, (briva3) had ended all their auctions??

As for this one, you may have missed it, so much of what I and others have done just disappears into the nothingness of a 166 page thread, but this is a sales pattern I've demonstrated with this seller's sales dating back to 2011. Whoever they are, consistently resells the same book multiple times. Their purpose, at least to me, seems to be so that they can prop up the market for sales that they do off of eBay and on venues that are not recorded in GPA/GoCollect/Worthpoint.

Earlier, I listed around 100 submissions from this seller, visited every cert page and discovered several likely swaps that comicwiz hasn't even gotten to yet. I only scratched the surface of his submissions, but out of what I saw, only a portion of those books made it to ebay. 

Also, I lost the point of reference quote, but someone had pointed to a signature book and that being safe. No it isn't, If it's signed by the same folks, the custom label swap scam is still possible to pull off and I wouldn't put it past anyone to try.

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agamoto

agamoto

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On 12/27/2023 at 9:05 PM, VintageComics said:

Ah OK, so that's where the story came from.

I re-listened to that video the other night,specifically looking for that info but I stopped around the 1:20:00 mark, being too tired (it was my 2nd time listening to it just for the answer we were looking for).

So he has pics of the guy showing off books at a con. Sounds like the alleged seller was walking around, not set up at a show and that's very common. We see it all the time. There's no indication he was actually set up at the show.

CGC definitely knows who that seller is, or at least the name/address/phone and CC# they're using to pay for their shenanigans and have their goodies delivered. That's really all that matters. Armchair detective doxxing is/was a bad idea, unless we can be 100% an alias or the identity of a friend/neighbor/spouse isn't being used to mask who they are. 

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agamoto

agamoto

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:57 PM, Pcaedus said:

waiting on the coffeezilla video on this

Not enough youtube influencer drama to draw him into the story... Well there is sticky goose and his two-cent insight into the matter, what that was worth.

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RonS2112

RonS2112

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On 12/28/2023 at 12:24 AM, BEAUMONTS said:

I wonder how many Ffffssss Black Rock give about comics.  Any respectability CGC ever had is long gone.  It has been proven over and over again with multiple issues from damaging historical books for the sake of "improved" grades, gift grades for "Pedigree" collections for major auction houses, horrible grading especially as of late, and outrageously egregious quality control.  This "scam" is just a symptom of a broken business , it was going to happen sooner or later with what seems nobody at the rudder.  Who really cares what CGC is "doing behind the scenes", there apathy and greed created the perfect storm and it's come home to roost.  I feel bad for the "customers" who were taken in this scam in CGC's corporate apathetic slothful greed.

Yes, but you can’t ignore the apathy and greed on the part of a large segment of the consumer base, which also fueled this scam.

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RonS2112

RonS2112

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On 12/28/2023 at 2:40 AM, agamoto said:

CGC definitely knows who that seller is, or at least the name/address/phone and CC# they're using to pay for their shenanigans and have their goodies delivered. That's really all that matters. Armchair detective doxxing is/was a bad idea, unless we can be 100% an alias or the identity of a friend/neighbor/spouse isn't being used to mask who they are. 

You are correct.  But I think some here should get used to the idea that it is possible (in fact likely) that the scammer’s personal info will not be shared with us.

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 3:27 AM, RonS2112 said:

You are correct.  But I think some here should get used to the idea that it is possible (in fact likely) that the scammer’s personal info will not be shared with us.

Some of the perp's information will have to be shared for the searching to continue for slabs with bogus grades and for consumers to be able to evaluate the slabs in their collections and be made aware of suspect slabbed books going forward.  Names/aliases and city locations used by the scammer to sell books at various venues must be spread clear and wide, at a minimum.  And lists of certification numbers from all submissions to CGC by the perp must be compiled and released.

Edited by namisgr
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Sigur Ros

Sigur Ros

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Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 3:18 AM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

All joking aside though. Let's stop ripping into each other and focus on the main goal here. A fix. Happy holidays all and have a good night.

The fix?  Better slabs, like the other guys.

Ok, back to ripping into each other...

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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
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On 12/28/2023 at 1:31 AM, agamoto said:
On 12/27/2023 at 6:51 PM, boreds said:

So this 9.8 Mark Jewellers Secret Wars 8 is at $3,349 and ends in less than two hours. I believe it was a member of the boards who posted this book, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It looks like a legit 9.8, coming from a trustworthy source.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285600398199?hash=item427f1c3b77:g:Th8AAOSwTGRldTw6&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Dj2Y3tWA6wo0gzpW81ETKPk7HQFcwc5pAndirD%2FbJ77Y9s3lhxgIfQ%2BlKIRAgGDYqt%2BHOc%2B4fZ7fbV4F%2BbpBKC2Q5XJj1vZLKcwEpNhc9KQI4Bkw6ZzxBwfUUL7%2FsYVWPC0QD0ZLr1%2B8YT1iSSwlfv1%2FsKtOjD6s8BnPP80iane%2FoNZFSnpMW9uMtQ%2FcQDEoUII5N4X%2FqYHZFzsHEnQztjLloXUVfhVlv4zHDMKu3AzmYvx0w%2FbgI46M9uf4FFNz%2B2qdvqeympWOFhGje9g4wQ%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9qql96VYw

Meanwhile our friend Briva's book "sold" for over 21k a few weeks ago. I doubt this was an actual sale, as he ended it early and was obviously shill bidded to the moon... Yet still I feel real bad for the trustworthy seller who is going to take a massive hit because of scumbag Briva. 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/235352700169?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m43.l1123&plmtId=700008&mesgId=3016&mkcid=8&ch=osgood&bu=43473349826&trkId=b9ade879-3043-4bd1-bc5d-bf16a474ebcd&cnvId=700003&recoId=235352700169&recoPos=1

Woah, I thought Comic Selects, (briva3) had ended all their auctions??

The links are backward. The bottom link isn't Briva.

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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Posted

Comiclink just listed a 9.8 ASM 194 newstand, grade date in December.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598006/

The submission includes this ASM 238. Look at LFC. https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598005/

The submission also includes a 9.6 XMEN 266 https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598003/

an ASM 9.8 252  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598004/

An Omega men 9.8  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598007/

 

You know, just your AVERAGE CGC submission. @COMICLINK

 

hm

 

 

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GDN

GDN

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 4:51 PM, boreds said:

So this 9.8 Mark Jewellers Secret Wars 8 is at $3,349 and ends in less than two hours. I believe it was a member of the boards who posted this book, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It looks like a legit 9.8, coming from a trustworthy source.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285600398199?hash=item427f1c3b77:g:Th8AAOSwTGRldTw6&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Dj2Y3tWA6wo0gzpW81ETKPk7HQFcwc5pAndirD%2FbJ77Y9s3lhxgIfQ%2BlKIRAgGDYqt%2BHOc%2B4fZ7fbV4F%2BbpBKC2Q5XJj1vZLKcwEpNhc9KQI4Bkw6ZzxBwfUUL7%2FsYVWPC0QD0ZLr1%2B8YT1iSSwlfv1%2FsKtOjD6s8BnPP80iane%2FoNZFSnpMW9uMtQ%2FcQDEoUII5N4X%2FqYHZFzsHEnQztjLloXUVfhVlv4zHDMKu3AzmYvx0w%2FbgI46M9uf4FFNz%2B2qdvqeympWOFhGje9g4wQ%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9qql96VYw

Meanwhile our friend Briva's book "sold" for over 21k a few weeks ago. I doubt this was an actual sale, as he ended it early and was obviously shill bidded to the moon... Yet still I feel real bad for the trustworthy seller who is going to take a massive hit because of scumbag Briva. 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/235352700169?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e90001.m43.l1123&plmtId=700008&mesgId=3016&mkcid=8&ch=osgood&bu=43473349826&trkId=b9ade879-3043-4bd1-bc5d-bf16a474ebcd&cnvId=700003&recoId=235352700169&recoPos=1

 

 

 

It ended up going for $9,608 so not too far off the fake sale.  I think the seller did well considering the controversy right now.

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GDN

GDN

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 5:36 AM, sledgehammer said:

Comiclink just listed a 9.8 ASM 194 newstand, grade date in December.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598006/

The submission includes this ASM 238. Look at LFC. https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598005/

The submission also includes a 9.6 XMEN 266 https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598003/

an ASM 9.8 252  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598004/

An Omega men 9.8  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4351598007/

 

You know, just your AVERAGE CGC submission. @COMICLINK

 

hm

 

 

Got to be him with that list of books in that submission....scammers never quit and aren't phased by being outed at one location....they will just move on to the next.

Given the grading dates these may all be legit books even if they are from him.  Probably a stack of cracked out books going back for a new 9.8 cert number.

Edited by GDN
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jason4

jason4

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 11:48 PM, migmtl76 said:

Wow I just saw the @immaculatecomics  video... not good news 

This basically calls.into question any slab you want to buy off a wall at a convention or on ebay or anything you own that you didn't slab yourself and even then people are no longer going to trust you without photos. This is awful. Might as well go back to when every comic there was is raw again and start over with new slabs that can't be done like this. 

 

I will say graders note matching the book in the slab is really important.

Edited by jason4
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CGC Mike

CGC Mike

Posted
  • Administrator
Posted

CCG and CGC Comics Statement on Holder Tampering Incident

The Certified Collectibles Group (CCG), which includes Certified Guaranty Company (CGC), is aware of an incident involving an individual tampering with CGC Comics holders. Based on our initial review, we believe that the incident affects a few hundred comic books.

CCG exists to protect the collecting community, and in the last 36 years we have certified more than 85 million collectibles, each one backed by a comprehensive guarantee. The trust that we have built with our community sometimes makes us a target of bad actors and, despite our vigilance, this individual tampered with some of our holders.

If you purchased one of the books that this individual tampered with, we will ensure that you are appropriately compensated for losses arising from any failures in our services. We expect to share a list of books that we believe are impacted as soon as possible.  

We have also retained a leading private investigative service and outside counsel to conduct a comprehensive review of this incident and our processes, and to help ensure that this individual is held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. We have already made significant improvements to our processes as a result of this incident, and we will continue to take appropriate steps to help ensure that this type of incident does not happen again.

We expect to share more information when we have it. In the meantime, if you have any questions or would like to share any information with CCG, please reach out to us at ReportFraud@CollectiblesGroup.com.

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