ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[sledgehammer]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:35 PM, Timmay said:

On 12/29/2023 at 2:06 PM, sledgehammer said:

Was it on the 4/8/22 date shown in GPA for that 9.2 cert #?

Do you have any info on the buyer that fits in with what we've seen here so far?

No it was a private sale this summer.

Shipped to a P.O Box in Kew Gardens NY and part of the name he used is part of one of the ebay ID's.

It's him.

I won't be funny and say Billy ZANE.

But I bet I'm close.

@Heronext

 

[sledgehammer]

I believe the buyer of the IH 340 was not correct, and there was misspelling in the communications.

The woman's name is in fact Bree, not Brees.

CGC is clearly all over this.

At least, I hope they are.

[MisterMR]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:39 PM, LordRahl said:

So I get that there are literally millions of slabs out there that don't have this but for anything from the last few months and going forward, there are pictures of the book for all to see, correct? So really this has inadvertently already been corrected by the imaging that CGC instituted a few months ago, correct? Or am I missing something? 

I thought a few others had pointed out that sometimes the original image is being replaced once the book goes through the reholder process (Or if it’s a book that was originally stabbed more than 6 months ago, the reholder image is now the original image). Which means that image is worthless if it’s just a photo of the fake book you’re buying. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:05 PM, MisterMR said:

I thought a few others had pointed out that sometimes the original image is being replaced once the book goes through the reholder process (Or if it’s a book that was originally stabbed more than 6 months ago, the reholder image is now the original image). Which means that image is worthless if it’s just a photo of the fake book you’re buying. 

Exactly.   Looking up the image of the book does nothing but confirm it’s the same book you’re buying.

[NewWorldOrder]

"If he wasn't so  greedy, he'd have been tougher to spot."

[Lightning55]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:03 PM, sledgehammer said:

I believe the buyer of the IH 340 was not correct, and there was misspelling in the communications.

The woman's name is in fact Bree, not Brees.

CGC is clearly all over this.

At least, I hope they are.

I suggested that, but the poster said it was definitely "Brees" on the box. Not some other iteration. 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:12 PM, Lightning55 said:

I suggested that, but the poster said it was definitely "Brees" on the box. Not some other iteration. 

It might have been some weird "possessive form thing" or some other weirdness, but it will turn out to be Bree, if it ever comes out.

[comeaux]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:42 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So many rookie Youtubers and social media back seat graders have no idea how insane that was

Rookie YouTubers & back seat graders discovered fraud that CGC “experts” failed to find 

[LordRahl]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:07 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Exactly.   Looking up the image of the book does nothing but confirm it’s the same book you’re buying.

Yeah I get that. I guess I was thinking more for the books that might just be switched without going to CGC for reholder. Definitely a loophole there that needs to be closed and I imagine already has been.

[sledgehammer]

This thing is going to blow the Ewert scandal away.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:14 PM, comeaux said:

Rookie YouTubers & back seat graders discovered fraud that CGC “experts” failed to find 

Pretty sure if was first discovered here on the boards no?

CGC boards have the best comic book detectives in the world.

 Most of the noob low-tier Youtubers are just reaction videos.

There are of course some decent ones, but more often than not they add zero value outside of their own surface level bantering of non-sense.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:16 PM, sledgehammer said:

This thing is going to blow the Ewert scandal away.

I will take that bet.

[sledgehammer]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Pretty sure if was first discovered here on the boards no?

The ASM 252 scandal?

No.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Pretty sure if was first discovered here on the boards no?

 

[comeaux]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:20 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

There are six known green label Hulk 181s that are now in blue labels.

 

Proof pictures of Hulk 181's.  All these green label "donor books" became blue labels:

• 0220043014 (Q) to 4275679008 (U)
• 4283015003 (Q) to 4265040003 (U)
• 4155507003 (Q) to 4120217003 (U)
• 4206646001 (Q) to 4209759001 (U)
• 4089133002 (Q) to 4146028001 (U)
• 4115260001 (Q) to 4115170002 (U)

Thanks and yes I saw this although I thought these Hulk 181’s were submitted for reholder but I was thinking that this scam could even be much bigger if scammers are using mechanical damage submissions to pull the swaps since they are supposedly not scrutinized as much. Basically a guy just hired from Pizza Hut swapping mechanically damaged cases for 8 hours a day while staring at his phone. 

[LordRahl]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:45 PM, pdags said:

It's kind of a solution, but it's dependent on high quality pics.  Sometimes pictures, specially on eBay, aren't high enough grade to compare.  Also, even with good pics it can still be very difficult to be 100% certain.  There was a discussion this morning about a book, some people thought it was the same others didn't.

But let's be honest, we shouldn't have cross check pictures for every purchase we're considering.   Just make cases that are tamper proof.

Might not be possible. Where there is a will there is a way. Too much money in comics these days and too many yahoos out there trying to get rich quick and easy. Also, what happens when someone out there figures out how to forge a CGC case? It can't be that hard to get some factory in China to manufacture a duplicate, figure out how to copy the labels and off you go. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet but I'm betting at some point it will. Consumers need to do their due diligence, you can't leave it all to CGC. Like I said, someone will figure out how to forge a case and label, what is CGC supposed to do about that?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:21 PM, LordRahl said:

Might not be possible. Where there is a will there is a way. Too much money in comics these days and too many yahoos out there trying to get rich quick and easy. Also, what happens when someone out there figures out how to forge a CGC case? It can't be that hard to get some factory in China to manufacture a duplicate, figure out how to copy the labels and off you go. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet but I'm betting at some point it will. Consumers need to do their due diligence, you can't leave it all to CGC. Like I said, someone will figure out how to forge a case and label, what is CGC supposed to do about that?

Agreed, and I am amazed to see how many people want CGC to post so fast and tell us now now now now.......

Yes, please broadcast to the the future scam criminals what you are doing to improve the tampering of the CGC case

[comeaux]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:18 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Pretty sure if was first discovered here on the boards no?

CGC boards have the best comic book detectives in the world.

 Most of the noob low-tier Youtubers are just reaction videos.

There are of course some decent ones, but more often than not they add zero value outside of their own surface level bantering of non-sense.

Did you show up with your CGC tshirt & pom poms? 

[LordRahl]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:16 PM, sledgehammer said:

This thing is going to blow the Ewert scandal away.

Nope.

[LordRahl]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:16 PM, sledgehammer said:

This thing is going to blow the Ewert scandal away.

This is something that is likely to have a "fix". I don't know what that is, but it will be fixed. I bet if you put a properly micro-trimmed book in front of CGC today, they wouldn't be able to tell at least 50% of the time.