ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:37 PM, LordRahl said:

No. 

That's what I figured

Hindsight is 20/20. For this new one my glasses are still getting fitted, but a bold statement confidently taken into consideration.

One can hope.

 

[BrashL]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:37 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Yup.

This loophole while obviously not good is going to be closed (we hope).

Ewert was the 9/11 of the hobby.

Ewert affected such a small percentage of collectors. It matters a lot to people on this board but most collectors would never be able to purchase them. This affects literally every comic slabbed by CGC until the entire process and product is overhauled. Ewert is blip compared to this. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:40 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Not as important as what Jason Ewert proved to us.

IMO the biggest watershed moment in CGC history.

This is but a warmup to that.

I guess I can see how that is possible, but one may say "too soon for your comments to be taken but with a grain of salt" and yet, I'll just agree and say for now.

 

[brute_nm]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:33 PM, LordRahl said:

Which is the gut punch of Ewert... with all of the attention he still got away with a lot of it.

Hey now, that's not fair, he was told to leave the hobby "or else"

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:43 PM, BrashL said:

Ewert affected such a small percentage of collectors. It matters a lot to people on this board but most collectors would never be able to purchase them. This affects literally every comic slabbed by CGC until the entire process and product is overhauled. Ewert is blip compared to this. 

Oh he did bronze cooper as well.

Beautiful 9.2/9.4's Byrne X-men books, and all they need was a little micro trim to get 9.8 status.

What do you think there arent restored books in blue labels from ever year in the history of the CGC out there?

hmmmm

Edited December 29, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[EastEnd1]

Both CGC, and the market for graded comics, survived Ewert... and some!  

This one is still to be determined.  There are 7-8 million slabs out there that can apparently be opened and resealed with little to no noticeable difference.  Not that it matters at all which scandal is/was worse... fact is we have a "red alert" going on here folks that needs solving pretty quickly.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:33 PM, LordRahl said:

Truth. The Ewert scandal hit at a sore spot in the hobby... undetectable restoration. This is just a scammer finding a loophole. Doesn't punch in the gut the same way. Not to mention that Ewert was doing this with books that would today sell for 100's of thousands of dollars. Whereas this shmuck is going after low hanging fruit because the real high dollar stuff gets too much attention. Which is the gut punch of Ewert... with all of the attention he still got away with a lot of it.

The gut punch of Ewert was that he was chums with CGC. 
If this scammer was sitting down at forum dinners, you’d probably feel different.

[Lightning55]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:14 PM, sledgehammer said:

It might have been some weird "possessive form thing" or some other weirdness, but it will turn out to be Bree, if it ever comes out.

Brees on the box for 1 poster, Brees in a message for a different poster.

I'm going with Brees, but you can certainly cling to your supposition. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:47 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Oh he did cooper as well.

Beautiful 9.2/9.4's Byrne X-men books, and all they need was a little micro trim.

What do you think there arent restored books in blue labels from ever year in the history of the CGC out there?

hmmmm

This is why I somewhat agree, buying the book not the grade doesn't seem to fit with qualified going into universals, so I'll take solace that this is not to quote you, but more common than just a fresh wound

It might even be comforting to know that this person or persons might be found out, sigh and or made an example of to discourage further tampering. 

I will say if it is so common then the outrage of such shouldn't be discouraged, otherwise what is the point?

 

[comeaux]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:50 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Not that it matters at all which scandal is/was worse... fact is we have a "red alert" going on here folks that needs solving pretty quickly.

Exactly !!! but what happens is a guy who has to sell 200 slabs a week because “muh slabs” shows up and downplays this scam while belittling the YouTubers & board detectives who discovered this scam & did the research to substantiate the scam. 

[paqart]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:53 AM, BlancoBros said:

Insurance. 

This is why most businesses have it. Insurance will probably pay out for all or most of this. Then the insurance company will go after this person and their assets and try to collect what they can. Also, CGC most likely has a fund to deal with losses/mix-ups, etc. Granted, this is huge.


On a separate note (hear me out):
When CGC starts gets these tampered books back, they should all get a pedigree label, " Mark Jeweler Fooler" 

1) it is cgc way of acknowledging they are not infallible, things happen and they took care if it.
2) The book's complete history is retained, including it's once tainted background.
3) On the resale side of things, qualified/restored books sell for less than their counterparts and can be a harder, slower sale. It could help elevate their resell value and speed up the sale of the item since it is now "unique". 
4) Sure, CGC may refund customers the difference in price between a regular and a qualified book, but now the customer is stuck with a qualified book. If you are dropping 10k on a book, chances are you were probably not looking to add a qualified book to your collection. Still leaving the owner unhappy. Hopefully CGC will offer a few different options, including a full buyback if the customer so chooses.

Re: Insurance

Unless the amount is enough to break the bank, it is cheaper to pay the buyers out of pocket. I spoke with an executive I know in the insurance business about this. He said that companies of CGC's size are highly unlikely to make a claim of this type. If they did make a claim, their rates would go up "forever" and never go back down. "having insurance" and making a claim are totally different things.

[EastEnd1]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:52 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The gut punch of Ewert was that he was chums with CGC. 
If this scammer was sitting down at forum dinners, you’d probably feel different.

The other gut punch with Ewert is that he was a very well known dealer... I bought plenty of books from him in the 1990s at NY conventions... I found him to be great to work with at the time.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:50 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Both CGC, and the market for graded comics, survived Ewert... and some!  

This one is still to be determined.  There are 7-8 million slabs out there that can apparently be opened and resealed with little to no noticeable difference.  Not that it matters at all which scandal is/was worse... fact is we have a "red alert" going on here folks that needs solving pretty quickly.

No it is pretty determined.  The hobby will move on just like it always does.

Acting like hundreds of people were doing this is absurd on thousands of slabs.

First off the old CGC label was a million times easier to switch books out, did you know that?

This scammer had the tools, skill, and the money to pull this off.  Most collectors dont have the know how, technique, or discipline to pull this off.

Think about this logically if you were the scammer would you tell many people how to do it?  That would be really dumb.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[comeaux]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:38 PM, RonS2112 said:

I've read all 201 pages so far.

You must have fell asleep in the part where it’s explained that there are qualified & restored books in blue labels, that shoots down your “buy the book theory”

[William-James88]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:39 PM, LordRahl said:

So I get that there are literally millions of slabs out there that don't have this but for anything from the last few months and going forward, there are pictures of the book for all to see, correct? So really this has inadvertently already been corrected by the imaging that CGC instituted a few months ago, correct? Or am I missing something? 

That corrects absolutely nothing and only adds to the illusion of an incorrect slab being legitimate. It shows proof to the buyer that what they are purchasing is the same book CGC signed off on. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by William-James88

[RonS2112]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:58 PM, comeaux said:

You must have fell asleep in the part where it’s explained that there are qualified & restored books in blue labels, that shoots down your “buy the book theory”

And you must have fallen asleep when the pictures were shown of a Hulk 181 with a Blue 9.0 label that nonetheless looked like it had been run over by a car a few times.

Edited December 29, 2023 by RonS2112

[paqart]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:15 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I don't disagree with what you said.... but it isn't what I said.... 

I don't know that cgc was defrauded if they ok'd the reholder, as far "multiple crimes you mentioned" they all happened after CGC okd the slab. They were used to defraud on ebay and buyers, but not with CGC specifically anymore. In court CGC wouldn't be able to testify to any of that is what I mean.

So how can CGC bring criminal prosecution for any of it? That was what I was saying, maybe a lawsuit, but other than the grading fee's cgc is out, they weren't defrauded in too many other ways...

Compared to EBAY who will pass, and the customers, that might do class action once the list of slabs cgc provides is listed, and then there is CGC who is out grading fees. I could see there is a lot of "attempt to fraud" but was looking for clarification is all  

CGC was put on the hook for damages. They are victims also.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:54 PM, comeaux said:

Exactly !!! but what happens is a guy who has to sell 200 slabs a week because “muh slabs” shows up and downplays this scam while belittling the YouTubers & board detectives who discovered this scam & did the research to substantiate the scam. 

I said boardies are better detectives than most Youtubers.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:56 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

No it is pretty determined.  The hobby will move on just like it always does.

Acting like hundreds of people were doing this is absurd on thousands of slabs.

First off the old CGC label was a million times easier to switch books out, did you know that?

This scammer had the tools, skill, and the money to pull this off.  Most collectors dont have the know how, technique, or discipline to pull this off.

Think about this logically if you were the scammer would you tell many people how do it?  That would be really dumb, no?

 

Well that's one thing, tbh yall started posting that we should ignore it cause it happens all the time mentality

Who me worry? Type deal, which is equally absurd, but I'm glad cgc takes it a bit more serious. I agree with the spirit of the posts that it's common, this thing is a year out, and kind of soon to be looking at a 2 week 200 page thread saying, "stay completely calm there is nothing to see lol"

A number of gifs come to mind, but to each their own.

Why did we even bother hahaha  spare me 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:02 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Well that's one thing, tbh yall started posting that we should ignore it cause it happens all the time mentality

Who me worry? Type deal, which is equally absurd, but I'm glad cgc takes it a bit more serious. I agree with the spirit of the posts that it's common, this thing is a year out, and kind of soon to be looking at a 2 week 200 page thread saying, "stay completely calm there is nothing to see lol"

A number of gifs come to mind, but to each their own.

Why did we even bother hahaha  spare me 

It doenst happen all the time, but it will happen every so often and again in the future in some capacity.

Always scammers out there, why would comics be immune?