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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,031 posts in this topic

wiparker824

wiparker824

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On 12/29/2023 at 10:39 PM, BrashL said:

I totally disagree. We can be reasonably sure this single bad actor has been opening CGC slabs for at least 4-5 years and was only caught by a collector who specialized in a niche of the hobby and followed basically every sale. The slabs aren’t hard to open, and it’s inconceivable only one person has ever figured it out before now. 

Maybe, but keep in mind just because someone else might have figured it out doesn’t mean that person would do this… not everyone is willing to risk being caught and criminally prosecuted for a few thousand dollars they can make on a ASM 252. Look at it this way, almost everyone knows the steps to pull off an armed robbery of a gas station, yet only a small percentage of people actually do this. So when you combine the factors of very few knew how to do this with the fact that even if others knew most still would not, it makes it less likely for this to be a ton of people. The only way that changes in my mind is if we find out this person was working with a larger ring of people. 

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wombat

wombat

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On 12/30/2023 at 1:20 AM, wiparker824 said:

Maybe, but keep in mind just because someone else might have figured it out doesn’t mean that person would do this… not everyone is willing to risk being caught and criminally prosecuted for a few thousand dollars they can make on a ASM 252. Look at it this way, almost everyone knows the steps to pull off an armed robbery of a gas station, yet only a small percentage of people actually do this. So when you combine the factors of very few knew how to do this with the fact that even if others knew most still would not, it makes it less likely for this to be a ton of people. The only way that changes in my mind is if we find out this person was working with a larger ring of people. 

I would like to raise my hand and say I don't really know the steps to successfully pull off an armed robbery of a gas station. 

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wiparker824

wiparker824

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On 12/29/2023 at 11:24 PM, wombat said:

I would like to raise my hand and say I don't really know the steps to successfully pull off an armed robbery of a gas station. 

I never said successfully, but yeah I think most know the steps, point gun, ask for money, get money, run. I don’t recommend it.

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wombat

wombat

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On 12/30/2023 at 1:25 AM, wiparker824 said:

I never said successfully, but yeah I think most know the steps, point gun, ask for money, get money, run. I don’t recommend it.

Probably not the greatest analogy. 

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wombat

wombat

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On 12/30/2023 at 1:31 AM, wiparker824 said:

You can replace it with any crime you want that has a financial gain attached to it. Most people aren’t criminals. Most people who come across an opportunity to become a criminal turn it down, was my point. 

Agreed. But the issue is the "most" people. So how many others (which I'm sure to your point would be a small number) have either been doing this or will. You also have to factor in how likely someone thinks they are to get away with something and way the risk reward. 

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William-James88

William-James88

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On 12/30/2023 at 1:09 AM, comeaux said:

Yea man you notice I made one typo so that makes everything I said invalid to the CGC cheerleaders lol

The missing page you linked is abhorrent but there are 1000’s of CGC boneheaded train wrecks like this and it’s pathetic but wait for the CGC Calvary to arrive because “muh slabs” I gotta sell. It’s all about their money. I’m about to start cracking a few slabs just to see what kind of McDonalds level grading & quality control I paid for. 

Stuffing comics sealed in a Hefty bag into a $5 plastic Chinese box is mundane work but these clowns can’t even put the book right-side up with the correct label :ohnoez:

D6C55C07-C445-4B25-9F2F-E6DA68D3633C.gif.2695ab628e610b9edc8aa18e92b52f3f.gif

 

 

In terms of guarantee, it feels more like a warranty. Like bad stuff happened on my orders but I was made whole monetarily. Never at a loss of money (but definitely at a loss of books or whatnot). So I get their guaranty in that sense. And we are seeing it play out with this current scandal too. People will be monetarily compensated.

What I find completely asinine about the guarantee is that it's wrapped around a catch 22 they created. Only the book within their slab has the guarantee, it represents their service. So their guarantee that the book you purchased isn't missing a page or doesn't have restoration is only good as long as the book remains in the slab. While I get it, it's also the easiest out. The page is missing, but you only knew that because you removed the book from the slab. If it was kept in its holder, it's value as a complete book wouldn't have dropped. That's obviously an issue beyond CGC and more about slabbing books, but it's just to show that some aspects of the guarantee don't mean much. 

(and yes, with the fact that they take pictures now of the graded books, you can further use that to prove that the book you removed from the slab is the same book and in the case of that Archie, you could check if the removal of the pinup was recent or not, which is why CGC still made the individual whole even though they removed it from the slab).

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wiparker824

wiparker824

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On 12/29/2023 at 11:35 PM, wombat said:

Agreed. But the issue is the "most" people. So how many others (which I'm sure to your point would be a small number) have either been doing this or will. You also have to factor in how likely someone thinks they are to get away with something and way the risk reward. 

We do not know, and I’ve stated many pages ago we have no idea if this was the first person, just the first person to be caught. But my point was that just because others may have figured it out does not mean they automatically started a criminal enterprise. Most would do nothing with that knowledge. They certainly wouldn’t try to confirm it by sending in a fraudulent reholder for funsies.
 

So I’m guessing even if others found out the number was still relatively small, and of that small group most would not choose to become criminals. Of course this is just my guess, which isn’t any better than anyone else’s but that’s my reasoning behind my guess unless we learn more information. Otherwise I’m guessing the number of individuals doing this before this person is relatively small.

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AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

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How much does CGC want to ensure these slabs are not going to get messed up? They could use 3 prong metallic objects embedded into the plastic core as screws on top and bottom and sides on 6 areas on any book over 1k and charge the submitter an extra 50 bucks or something to that effect. Once those cases are cracked there will be no doubt they have been tampered with. What are they willing to do and what will people pay for their collectables? No one's blow drying through that. Just a thought.

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Dr. Love

Dr. Love

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On 12/29/2023 at 10:38 PM, William-James88 said:

The page is missing, but you only knew that because you removed the book from the slab. If it was kept in its holder, it's value as a complete book wouldn't have dropped.

Schrodinger's slab

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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So I want to crack open the 10 CGC slabs I have, loathe as I am to spend $12 on a heat gun. However, if there are in fact missing coupons or pages, that'll be my tough luck....

The only recourse is to get CGC to ... reholder them! But isn't that the problem in the first place?!? What to do?!

Edited by Steven Valdez
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AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

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I haven't even responded about their response. While it may be minimal in some ppl's eyes, at least they finally did. This isn't about how they responded or what they said anymore. If we as a community can figure out something that will help fix this situation, by all means toss a comment in that helps. None of us want to see CGC fail. I made some jokes and memes earlier but lets get real here. Good input is appreciated. Keep having the odd jokes we can all laugh with that but anyone with good ideas is also beneficial to helping them as a company and us with our slabs benefit. Let's not drop the ball after all this investigating. We can keep on digging and also suggest solutions. God speed to you all and have a Happy New years soon and good 2024

Edited by AbsoluteCarnage
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Matt1982

Matt1982

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CGC will be facing some very difficult choices in the very near future. Changing their case/process is a no-brainer. Their entire product is trust - not plastic - and they’ve lost that for now because a huge flaw in their product has been exposed. Whether they win that trust back will depend on their response.

Hey CGC - I think you provide a valuable service and I’ll continue to be a good customer, but you need to step up here. Communicate as soon as you can and do the right thing to make injured customers whole, even if it means short-term losses. The alternative will be long-term catastrophe.

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